<Begin Segment 10>

MA: So you were in Topaz for three and a half years, you said.

TN: We were in Tanforan for six months, and then Topaz for three years. And we were, as far as I can remember, we were the last family to leave Topaz.

MA: What was it like then?

TN: Oh, it was, it was dark, and of course, there were no lights on in the other barracks. And it was dusty, it was like a ghost town. And one of the saddest things was we had this collie dog, and we had to leave the collie dog behind because they wouldn't let us take it, and that was very sad.

MA: So your family went, then, from Delta, from Topaz, to Salt Lake City directly?

TN: Uh-huh. They took us to Delta and put us on a train, and I remember the train went across the salt flats, Great Salt Lake flats, and pulled into the UP Depot. And I can distinctly remember stepping over the tracks and sitting on these long benches inside the depot. And I kind of asked my dad, "Where are we going?" and he had no idea. He only had twenty-five dollars that the government gave us. Eventually we ended up in a tenement room, I mean, it was only ten feet by ten feet, it had a gas stove because I remember my dad would cook chicken noodle soup. And we had a lady that would come in every week and check on us, and later I was to find that she was a social worker and we were a welfare family. And I can remember since -- oh, that tenement house was right where the Salt Palace is, so it wasn't very far from downtown. And I can remember that me and my sister were wanting to go see Santa Claus at the ZCMI Center so bad, and I had a cold. And I waited a day or two and finally I was able to go see Santa Claus, that was a big thrill. And then even in Topaz, one of the big thrills was having a Baby Ruth bar and a bottle of Coca-cola. That was the living end. We didn't have that too often.

MA: So how, how long were you in the, that housing that you were talking about?

TN: The tenement?

MA: Right.

TN: Not very long, because from there, my dad, I remember we took a trip to St. Ann's, which was part of a large Catholic church, and we met with the nuns and the father. And I remember the room was so big and we were small, and the door was so huge to open, and I was kind of flabbergasted.

MA: Is St. Ann's in Salt Lake City?

TN: It's in Salt Lake, uh-huh. It's still there. But my dad did make arrangements for us to be there, and we were there about a year. And we learned the Catholic faith, we had to say our rosary every day and learn to read the Bible, and was taught class by the nuns. And we had to do KP duty in the basement, which was peeling potatoes. And then we'd go upstairs to sleep and there was a big room of about, there must have been forty beds with young people sleeping in 'em, young boys, and the girls had their own sleeping area. I did some artwork in there, and I think that was my first taste of being an artist.

MA: Who were the other children that were there? Did you get to know them pretty well, and what were their backgrounds?

TN: Most of 'em were Caucasians, and some I have even run into after forty years, and they seem to remember me and I remember them. One incident I remember, this boy named Dick Hunsaker, it was Valentine's Day and made a valentine for every children in the class. And I thought that was so nice until I found out that he only got about two valentines for himself. That story has always stayed with me; it's a good lesson in giving, I think.

MA: Were you able to keep in contact with your parents during this time? Did they come visit?

TN: Oh, yes, they would come. They didn't live too far away.

MA: And so it was only a temporary thing that you were staying there? It was, you knew that? You knew that was only a temporary...

TN: Oh, yes, it was just a matter of time, although it was a year's time.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.