<Begin Segment 9>

MA: Right, so then you said that you stayed in Salt Lake City for about a year.

AH: I think it was about a year.

MA: And then your parents decided to move back to San Francisco.

AH: Uh-huh, yeah.

MA: And so what was it like to return back to the West Coast after being... I mean, I guess --

AH: You know, there was one... because let's see. When I was in Salt Lake for that one year, I started kindergarten, and I think I started first grade. Wait a minute, I'm getting kind of confused. I know I started kindergarten, it was Lafayette Elementary School, went to San Francisco and started second grade there. And I remember I was placed into special education class because I remember I ended up in this class and I saw these disabled people, they were mentally retarded and physically disabled and all that, and I thought, "What am I doing here?" and it really traumatized me. And I look back on it, I never did ask my mom, but I think what happened is I was extremely shy, and I spoke a lot of Japanese and I stopped speaking. And so I wasn't speaking English very well, and so I think what happened is they misplaced me in an inappropriate special ed. class. Because the next thing I knew, I was in a regular classroom. So whenever I give my presentations, a lot of times I do give it to faculties, and I tell them how important it is to really test the child before they place the child, and make sure that they get them in the... of course, more technology and the tests are a lot more, there's been a lot of improvement in testing for things like that.

MA: At your school, were there, was it mostly Japanese American students?

AH: Oh, in San Francisco?

MA: Yeah, in San Francisco.

AH: No, it was, it was amazing. It was ninety percent, probably, African Americans because what happened is when, when we were all sent to Topaz, lot of the laborers were gone, lot of the blue collar workers were gone. And so this is what I understand, that there was a big ad from the businesses of San Francisco in the south encouraging the African Americans who were jobless down there or in low income to come up to San Francisco to find jobs. So what happened is when we went to Topaz, our whole place was overtaken by African Americans.

MA: Your apartment building?

AH: Right, uh-huh. And in fact, that whole area. So by the time we went back, it was pretty much trashed. And so the school, there was a lot of African Americans, very few Caucasians, I'd say maybe five percent, the rest were Asians and Chinese and Japanese especially.

MA: What was the feelings like between the communities, especially the African American and Japanese American communities when you got back to San Francisco?

AH: This is, I'm sort of, kind of... not embarrassed, but I'm sort of... I guess that's the right word, embarrassed because the Japanese, we had strong racist ideas.

MA: Against African Americans?

AH: African Americans. I grew up not associating, we treated the African Americans like they were second class citizens. And of course, thank goodness, I outgrew that realizing that that's not... but the Japanese, the Japanese were, and then we even considered Chinese as a lower class, too. I think it's terrible now, I can't believe that I went along with that, but I grew up with it. Thank goodness I've changed.

MA: Was it sort of a community-wide, community-held, sort of, beliefs? And how did that play out in terms of the relationships between the communities? Was there ever tension or was it sort of like communities just kind of did their own thing and didn't really interact?

AH: There was a little bit of tension, but we act like they didn't even exist. Japanese are very proud people. What's interesting to me, and I learned, is that the Japanese that came from Japan are, came directly from Japan. In Japan they have a strong class system, and that was carried into San Francisco. So my parents were, my parents were not judgmental. I just remember them... but then it was the other extended family that were pretty judgmental, and that was kind of the general feeling of the Japanese community there. I was told what Japanese were the "lower class," and, "stay away from that family." And, "This family's okay and that family's okay." But I'm a rebel at heart, and I just played with the people from the low class because, to me, they weren't. They had nice cars, they dressed well, their homes were clean and everything, and the parents were very nice. So lot of times, I ignored some of that. But then I did comply about the African Americans because, to me, they were scary when I was growing up. They lived in the basement apartment of our apartments, and they were not very clean. You know, they come from poverty background, so they didn't know any better, probably. But then when I went back, I moved to Utah, the further away you get from the West Coast, especially San Francisco, the class system fades and you come here and you have no clue, which is good.

MA: Oh, that's interesting. So you noticed a strong difference, then, between San Francisco and Utah in terms of...

AH: Oh, yeah. The Japanese in San Francisco versus here. The Japanese here in Utah are a lot more friendly and more open.

MA: Why do you think that is?

AH: I think it has to do with the proximity, the Japanese coming from Japan, coming to San Francisco, and the class system. The Japanese were real close, tight-knit community, and I... anyway, when I came here, I didn't feel that at all. There was, there wasn't that class system or feeling like... well, and then the Japanese here didn't have to have that, dealing with... they didn't go to camp, and so when they, they didn't have that experience of leaving their homes and then being overrun by people who were going to leave it trashed, I guess. I don't know. But I didn't feel the discrimination here like I did in San Francisco. That was years ago now, I'm sure things have changed a lot.

MA: Right.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.