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MA: I wanted to talk with you a little bit about San Francisco again, and the sort of Japanese cultural traditions and practices that you learned there and you retained from the community in San Francisco, if you could talk about that a little bit.

AH: You know, the word that really comes to me is -- and I grew up with this -- is the word "jouhin." And it's hard to really describe in English what that word means, but anybody that knows -- I mean, speaks the language would know what jouhin means, which means "something in good taste," and "classy" in Japanese. And you notice that all these pictures during World War II, that we were being transferred under these terrible circumstances, that everybody was dressed jouhin, which means that they had their hats and their gloves and their heels on. And that's kind of what I'm thinking of. And I feel like I got a lot of this in San Francisco because when I came to Utah, I've always appreciated the fact that I was able to learn what that means in Japanese. And that jouhin attitude has helped me to learn how to carry myself, and even my relationship with people and how I dress, how I walk. I guess the word "dignity" is real good, and I think that's the thing that was so amazing about that generation, is they held their dignity even under all these terrible, terrible circumstances. And I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate from San Francisco. And that jouhin applies to making sure that our kimono is put on properly, how we speak, and even how to dance. During the Obon time, I was taught to dance the right way, and it's not so much right or wrong, but how much to really enjoy the dancing by doing it properly. Some of the movements you shouldn't exaggerate, that it should be subtle and beautiful. And so if you see a dancer doing the same dance, and one dancer exaggerates that movement and another one does it with subtlety, it's more beautiful to watch the dancer who does it with subtlety and not the one who exaggerates. You know, there's a lot of movies that are being made about geishas, and like Grace Oshita, my cousin and I, I think she might have seen some of those. And we just kind of shake our head because it wasn't done with jouhin. But I... and so yeah, it's really amazing. That's an interesting question you ask because it really applies to a lot of things that, who I am now. See what you did to me? [Laughs]

MA: That you noticed came from your, your short time in San Francisco.

AH: Yeah, all this upbringing. I was surrounded by people, kind of like osmosis, too, you know what I mean? I was surrounded by people with good taste. I grew up with families... and they weren't rich or anything, I remember it was just kind of a middle income family, but they were just so, they were really nice people, and their living quarters were so beautiful. Not with expensive kinds of things, but they were real clean and everything. And these were families that were well-respected in the community, too. There was a Suwada family, she was a sensei of koto and shamisen. And then their daughter, who was my girlfriend's mom, just wonderful people. And the Baba family on Post Street... in fact, the Baba family on Post Street, I remember Russell Baba, he was about two-and-a-half when I last saw him, and now he and his wife and I, we play the taiko together. Well, not together, Russell and his wife are known internationally as outstanding taiko performers, so we have something in common. I'm not internationally known, I'm just lucky at my age that I could play the taiko. [Laughs]

<End Segment 13> - Copyright ©2008 Densho and the Topaz Museum. All Rights Reserved.