Densho Digital Archive
Steven Okazaki Collection
Title: Gordon Hirabayashi Interview
Narrator: Gordon Hirabayashi
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Date: October 25, 1983
Densho ID: denshovh-hgordon-06-0010

<Begin Segment 10>

Q: Do you, can you talk about as to whether, did you think other people did the same as you? Similar actions?

GH: No. I expected... I knew nothing about what was, how many people were going to be doing this sort of thing. I sort of thought that after the smoke cleared and from Seattle down to Los Angeles when we got the story, maybe there would be a hundred others with whom I could join in a kind of mass case. It was only after the northwest commander for the removal called me out of jail to his office and greeted me cordially, and I was wondering what all this was leading to and he started to tell me how successful this removal process was. 100 percent success in Southern California, 100 percent success in Northern California. And, "As soon as we finish this discussion, it'll be a 100 percent here." So that's when I got the first inkling that there were no other cases. And so I thought, "Gee, now what is he going to offer me that I could change my views and not be the, help him with his 100 percent?" It didn't turn out to be anything new. He just was going to give me another chance to reconsider and drop all the charges and so on. He said, "By this time, you have this and this and this, half a dozen or more charges against you. We're willing to drop all that, give you a limousine to the camp and forget everything." While I couldn't do that, I felt so sorry for him being the only one without 100 percent that I was racking my brains, how could I support him? Finally I said, "You know, I'm not resisting this physically. Why don't you get a couple of your guys to pick me up, take me down to the car, drive me over to the camp in Puyallup, open up the barbed wires and drop me off at the administration building and go out? I'd be there, you got your 100 percent." And it seemed like, for a split second, he thought about it, and then he said, "No, can't do that." "Why not?" And what he said floored me. He said, "That'd be illegal."

[Interruption]

Q: You found out that you were the only one that had kind of taken this stance, so do you think others, other Japanese Americans may have perceived you as a troublemaker because of that stance?

GH: Well, I didn't think too much about that, because they're all gone to camp. And no one was left behind except hospital cases, so it was possible, and it was possible that this action would be considered "troublemaking," "boat rocking" and so on. And I had, I had therefore not consulted any of the community leaders, especially the Nisei leaders, because I knew their position. I disagreed with it. And there was one thing that I couldn't adequately answer with any assurance, and that is, the thing that I would be doing, would it cause further pressures against the community, people in camp already suffering? Would it get the army angry with reprisal actions? I don't know any of that, you see. And so I didn't try to approach them, and I never thought further about it, except that I kept getting letters from camp which relieved me of that kind of worry.

Q: What do you mean, you got letters?

GH: Well, friends of mine would be writing about camp situation and expressing appreciation that "at least somebody's putting up a battle right at the outset." You see, a lot of people objected to many aspects of the camp procedure, I mean, the uprooting procedure down the line. And a lot of people suffered reprisals on that. But all of that happened afterward, after they're in the process. And I suppose many of them, if they had another opportunity, might have taken a stand right at the beginning. But you know, as I discussed earlier, this is not the normal pattern of events, confrontation. And I wasn't doing it for confrontation, I just couldn't accept it, and this was the only response I could make.

Q: Can you talk about the JACL's policy and stand at the time?

GH: The JACL took the position that we are in an emergency, at war, and they took the government's word that this action of removing us and detaining us in concentration camps were vitally necessary for the war effort. It was militarily necessary. And so with that accepted as fact, they took their stand to participate to the best of their ability to help this country in a time of war, so they went along with this. I felt that they could have expressed their opposition to this kind of drastic action, women, children, ordinary workers. After all, community leaders were all picked up right after Pearl Harbor, or most of 'em, and others were under surveillance. That kind of drastic action didn't seem necessary. They could have taken a stand there and then cooperated physically to remove or to relieve some of the pressures of move. But they decided to go this way. I have only to accept their good intentions. I disagreed, but they were doing it this way. And as it turned out, forty years later, my position was vindicated, more or less. But at the time, nobody could say that.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 1983, 2010 Densho and Steven Okazaki. All Rights Reserved.