<Begin Segment 1>

Q: Judge, how did you get involved with the Yasui case and what was your stance?

GS: Well, I didn't know Mr. Yasui, but Judge Fee, James Alger Fee was the judge in the case and he called, a member of his staff called my office and invited me to appear as amicus curiae, as friend of the court. And I was told that there would be a group of distinguished lawyers who were also being invited to appear amicus curiae. And that's how I happened to get into the case. Judge Fee knew that I was interested in civil rights; I had represented the American Civil Liberties Union and I was concerned about minority rights. And that's how I happened to be appointed.

Q: What was your opinion of Mr. Yasui and what he had done? What was your stance regarding...

GS: When he was first indicted?

Q: Yes.

GS: Well, I didn't know too much about him, but I had heard that he voluntarily turned himself into the police because he wanted to test the constitutionality of the act. And I thought that that was a very commendable thing for him to do and I thought that that was something that was necessary in order to test the constitutionality.

Q: What was your stance though about the Yasui case, the brief that you had filed? What did you say?

GS: I met with the other lawyers who were amicus curiae, and I expressed the view that the act was unconstitutional. And I thought that we ought to go in as a group and tell the court that we thought it was unconstitutional. Well, I found that I was the only one who was of that opinion. Every other lawyer thought that the Executive Order 9066 was within the power of the military and the power of the legislative branches of the government, or the executive branches.

Q: What was your involvement with the ACLU and the Yasui case?

GS: Well, I helped organize the ACLU some six or seven years before that time. And I had handled one of the big cases that they had, in which they had participated, and, well, I was interested in their civil rights program. I don't exactly know what you want.

Q: Okay. With the Yasui case, were you involved --

GS: Well, then when I was asked by Judge Fee's office to participate, I called the New York office of the ACLU and told them what I was going to do and asked them if they would help me submit a brief. I was told that they would take it under consideration and that would let me know. They never did call me. And I didn't know why they didn't call me until much later when I learned that there was a conflict among the board, that some of the people wanted to participate and others were opposed to the participation. And so as far as the ACLU was concerned, they did not participate in this case for at least three years. Now, I did get a call from the ACLU in 1944, and they told me that there was a young man from the 442nd who was, who had lost his arms and I believe his legs in fighting in Italy. They asked me if I wouldn't represent him because he wanted to come back to Oregon and he thought to test the constitutionality of the act at that time. Now in the meantime, the case had gone to the Supreme Court of the United States and I noticed that Osmond Frankel, who was a great civil liberties lawyer in New York, had participated to some extent in the case before the Supreme Court of the United States.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 1983, 2010 Densho and Steven Okazaki. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

Q: Could you tell us about the atmosphere in Portland towards Japanese Americans?

GS: Well, it wasn't good, and that in certain places it was worse. For example, in Gresham, Oregon, and in Hood River, Oregon, where there were quite a few farmers and quite a few Japanese farmers, the attitude was very bad and they were not treated very well. As a result of the Pearl Harbor, there was widespread feeling of animosity against persons of Japanese ancestry. And I think that Executive Order 9066 was not, was greeted with a great deal of pleasure by most of the citizens of the area. There were only a very few people who were critical of it. And the newspapers were very supportive of the idea.

Q: Do you have any comments about the Supreme Court decisions of that time on the Yasui case?

GS: Well, the... Judge Fee agreed with me that the law was unconstitutional, at least insofar as the citizens are concerned. And then he did something with which I did not agree, and that was he found that Yasui had voluntarily relinquished his citizenship. I didn't see any basis for it, and then it went to the Court of Appeals and even the government didn't see any basis for it, and the Supreme Court just set aside that portion of Judge Fee's judgment. However, on the main issue, Judge Fee had decided that the law was unconstitutional but the Supreme Court of the United States reversed that judgment and held that it was valid. I gather that there was a great deal of dissention, but I think that the decision came out almost unanimously. Now I doubt very much whether they would do that today, but they did it at that time. Now after the, that decision came down, shortly thereafter, General DeWitt's order was set aside. And shortly thereafter, I received a call from a local newspaper asking me what I thought. And I said, well, I thought it was great, the order never should have been issued in the first place.

[Interruption]

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 1983, 2010 Densho and Steven Okazaki. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

Q: What was the attitude of people after the executive order was lifted?

GS: Well, late one evening, in December 1944, I was received a call from a local newspaper asking me, telling me that the order had been lifted and asking me what my attitude was. And I told him I thought it was great. And I learned from the reporter that I was the only one whom they had called that thought so. And the next morning when I read it in the newspaper, I found that, again, that I was the only one that was happy about the lifting of the order. That the mayor and the governor and a lot of farm leaders and labor leaders and businesspeople had said, be calm, don't get excited, the army knows what it's doing and don't protest too much. Or at all. And then, as I was walking to my office, several people stopped me and were critical of me and finally one man said, "Don't you have any respect for your wife and children?" Said, "How would you like to have your house blown up?" And that was the attitude that I saw, and those were my experiences. But there were people on the other side because about ten o'clock that morning, a young lady came to my office and she wanted to talk to me about the, my statement. And I said to her, "Are you objecting to it also?" And she said, "No, I think it's great. We never heard about you but there's a meeting at the YWCA this afternoon with a number of people present, the man, the head of the Council of Churches and others, and we want you there because we're organizing a committee to aid relocation." And I did go there and I did become a member of the committee and I did become the chairman of the Committee to Aid Relocation. Now, the Employment Committee to Aid Relocation. Now in that position, I tried to get help, the internees get their property back. Many of 'em had given up their farms or had let their neighbors run the farms while they were in the camps, and never got a penny for it during that whole period of time. And when we tried to get lawyers to represent them, we found that they, we couldn't get lawyers to represent them if they wanted to get their property back or if they wanted an accounting. We could only get lawyers if, for them, if they wanted to sell their property. And the same thing is true with people who were trying to get licenses to operate businesses. We had a difficult time, and that's why I had to go to Hood River and elsewhere in order to get their, these people's cases before the courts.

Q: What do you think of the possibility of the internment happening again?

GS: Well, I hope that never happens, and I don't think it will. I think most people now recognize that it was a mistake, and there has been much publicity about the, what the 442nd and the 100th Combat Team has done. I think the 442nd is the most decorated unit in the American military services. There are buildings that are named after many of these people. And I think generally, people recognize that patriotism is not a matter of a color of one's skin, and that there were many persons of Japanese ancestry who fought and gave up their lives for this country. Now, one can never judge what's gonna happen when a crisis occurs. But I do want to say that I have talked to a few people who have participated as attorneys for the government during this terrible period, and not all of them are convinced that a mistake has been made. Some of 'em are still of the opinion that the Executive Order 9066 was a proper order and are much opposed to granting any of these internees any money at all, or recognizing that a mistake has been made.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1983, 2010 Densho and Steven Okazaki. All Rights Reserved.