<Begin Segment 2>

RD: Tell me about the trip to Heart Mountain. Did you go back by train?

JD: Yes, we did. And I remember they had us pull down all the blinds because they didn't want anyone to see us. You know, I don't know at that point if we were afraid because we didn't know where we were going or we were just afraid because it was so mysterious, why do we have to pull the blinds down, etcetera. But I guess my mom and dad probably tried to keep us as calm as can be. And, actually, my dad didn't have to go, but he went with us, so...

RD: He didn't have to go?

JD: Right.

RD: Why?

[Interruption]

JD: Because he was considered white, he didn't have to go.

RD: Because his surname was Italian?

JD: Yes. My last name was Ritchie, which was, originally was R-I-C-C-I, which is Ricci, but when he came to America, he changed it so it's more anglicized where people knew how to pronounce it.

RD: So he was a naturalized citizen.

JD: Yes.

RD: That's interesting. And what was your first impression of Heart Mountain? Do you happen to remember what time of year you went?

JD: No, I don't. But it probably was more in the summertime, because I remember later on having to buy winter clothes, warmer clothes, and ice skates for ice skating and etcetera. You know, I can't really remember whether at that age I was really upset about it all other than leaving your old friends behind and what our life was gonna be like, and all of us crammed together in one room. I have three sisters and a brother, but we also had another girl come live with us because her mother got sick, her father had passed away, and this lady asked my mom to take her child with her. So we were six of us all in one room. My mom and dad had a separate room. So it was just different for us to get used to living that way. Cold... no, maybe the cold came later.

[Interruption]

JD: No, I had not seen snow before, so that was a little bit exciting, you know. Playing in snow, and my dad would go get some clean snow and put a little bit of canned cream or something on it and make some kind of dessert for us.

RD: You had snow pops. It was kind of like snow pops. And what about the guards? What do you remember about the guards at Heart Mountain?

JD: Well, we were in Block 27 where the guards were right there. So it was scary. That part was scary, you know, 'cause they were right there. And I guess we probably just never went near the guards, we just stayed away, although our barrack was lined up alongside of there. But, you know, I'm not sure how long they were there. I don't remember if they were there.

RD: We've heard that after a while they took them away because they realized no one could run away to anywhere.

JD: [Laughs] There was nowhere to go, right. That's true, though I don't remember how long they were there.

RD: And we talked to a women who was in her twenties yesterday, and she said the girls would get in trouble for talking to the guards.

JD: Well, I was too young, I wouldn't even think to talk to the guards at that point.

RD: So what did you expect to see in Wyoming? Did you expect to see, I don't know, cowboys and Indians?

JD: No.

RD: Didn't know where you were going?

JD: No, didn't know where we were going.

RD: Do you remember the swimming hole?

JD: Oh, yes, I've got pictures of the swimming hole. I was in Girl Scouts, so we camped out there. So that was fun.

RD: Tell me about the Girl Scouts.

JD: Don't ask, because I don't remember much about the Girl Scouts.

RD: So did your mom and dad fix up the barracks after a while?

JD: The best they could, they did. And my dad never ate in the cafeterias, he didn't like doing that. But my mom worked in the cafeteria, so she would bring his food home to him, and all of us would all just go with our friends to eat at the cafeteria. But my dad was spoiled.

RD: Were you allowed to cook in the barracks?

JD: No, I don't believe we did. Maybe later on we did because we used to have a couple of priests who came to play bridge. My mom and dad were bridge players, so they would come over and play bridge in the evenings with my mom and dad. So probably my mom did cook them things.

RD: Do you remember getting stuff from catalogs?

JD: Yes, I think that's how we got all our clothes. But there wasn't that much money because I remember having to wear hand-me-downs.

[Interruption]

RD: There was a little boy that drowned in the canal, I mean, in the swimming hole, the irrigation ditch. Do you remember that?

JD: No, I really don't remember that.

RD: Okay, because he was probably just about your age.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2010 Raechel Donahue and Garrett Lindemann and Densho. All Rights Reserved.