<Begin Segment 12>

TI: So, Kenji, we're going to start the second part, and I'll be the primary, so we can just chat. I'm going to start with the war years. And so the first question is, December 7, 1941, do you remember that day?

KM: Oh, yeah.

TI: So why don't you tell me what happened on that day for you.

KM: That day, being a Sunday, we were busy in the shop. And it was about one o'clock, and I was up in the front and my dad was in the back, and the news broke in that Pearl Harbor's been bombed. It wasn't official yet, but that's the news we got, and we'd keep up with the news. Then about half an hour later, another broadcast, it's been bombed, and they were in the process of fighting back. So I went back and told my dad, "Hey, Pearl Harbor's been bombed." He said, "No, it couldn't be." So he came up to the front, listened to the radio, and sure enough, it was... so he had a shortwave radio in the same set, so he turned it, and being in the daytime, he couldn't pick up Japan. So he quit giving that, "Now what's going to happen to us?" being Japanese and how all the Americans, hakujins going to treat us? Actually, nothing happened. Nothing happened. The next day, nothing happened. Going to school, why, you just walked to school like nothing happened.

TI: And so, because you mentioned earlier you had a lot of white customers. So that didn't change?

KM: That didn't change, no. To us it didn't change. Lot of 'em even told us, "How come you're getting evacuated? You were born the same time I was." Says, "How come you have to go?" Says, "Well, that's the law, we have to go."

TI: Well, what's interesting, too, is many of your dad's customers were Italian, and you lived in Germantown, so you had a lot of people who were speaking German. And so the United States was at war with Italy and Germany also.

KM: Yeah, right.

TI: So it seemed a little, yeah, I could see there was some confusion why the Japanese were being singled out.

KM: Yeah, yeah. We were singled out, yeah.

TI: Did you ever have conversations with any Italians or Germans about this?

KM: Yeah. In fact, Fulton Street used to be the main drag in town, so after school, I'd be Japanese, gal in the middle would be Italian, and the guy on the end would be a German. Walked down the street and nothing happens. [Laughs] Three musketeers. The Axis power, you get the three, the young three kids.

TI: And so when you walked down like that, were you aware that you, in some ways, ethnically represented the Axis powers? Did you guys...

KM: Well, yeah. I guess they would just picture me because it's Japanese. But the other two, you couldn't tell. They mingled with the whites. Actually, you couldn't tell if they were Italians or Germans or what.

TI: Did you ever talk amongst yourselves, with a German or Italian about whether or not things were happening in their community? Like the FBI, did any of the community leaders in the Italian or German community...

KM: Nothing. Nothing happened to them. They were just treated like white Americans. There was nobody I heard, didn't hear of anybody getting arrested or anything. It was just, just normal for them. That's why they were asking, "How come you got to go?"

TI: Yeah, no, that's... and what did you say?

KM: I said, well, I could say that, because of our features and all that. But, of course, our names were hard to pronounce, and we had slant eyes, and we wore glasses, and we had buck teeth. The propaganda was all of that. So we just got singled out, that's all.

TI: And so when this was happening, when you were singled out, how did that make you feel? Because, I mean, you had German and Italian friends.

KM: Uh-huh, right.

TI: And their countries were doing the same thing. In fact, the United States was at war with them. How did you, did you think that just because you did look different, that was why, and that was okay? Or what were you thinking?

KM: God, the thinking was, wow, we're classified as the enemy because even being a Nisei and Sansei, and father being born in this country and not being treated like an American should be treated, kind of hurt me. And so I says, well, it's just one of those things, you just have to fight with 'em, and fight for your cause as a citizen.

TI: And how, how aware were you of just sort of racism in general? Like in Fresno, were there certain places where Japanese could not go because they weren't white?

KM: No. No, we went anyplace where we wanted to. We might have heard certain places not to go, so we wouldn't go there because probably was a redneck community anyway, if you went there, it's kind of scary to be in there. So stay away from there. But regular places we went to, why, nothing happened.

TI: How about, like, anything like if there was like a fine restaurant or hotel, would those be available to you?

KM: They were available, but in a way, you could feel the discrimination. But they accepted. Some places, I don't think... in Fresno, I don't think there was any incidents of being refused.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2010 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.