<Begin Segment 10>

TI: When we were just talking before the interview started, you mentioned how, I mean, you didn't know at the time, but later on, they talked about finding tunnels in Chinatown.

KM: Yeah, Chinatown, uh-huh.

TI: Can you describe a little bit of what they found and what they were used for?

KM: They found? Yeah. They found little cubbyholes, and they figured that was for the opium den. And then, of course, they had places to live, too, people that didn't have place to live, they lived down there. And it was pretty elaborate because the walls were made out of brick, and to keep the thing from falling in on 'em, the fellows. And a lot of times there's a hotel on top and stuff. So they had to have some kind of foundation. I'd like to go down there one of these days. I hear stories.

TI: And these were, the tunnels were associated with the Chinese, sort of, establishments?

KM: Yeah, they are. They have doors into the different establishments. Of course, they got locks in 'em, you can't go into 'em. But the Chinese had a passageway, they just went right into the tunnel. Wish I was down there, maybe I could explain more what's down there.

TI: And as far as you knew, most people didn't know about these tunnels?

KM: Oh, no, nobody knew about that. Talking to the historian at the county, city, and they said they were working on that road project on Tulare between F and G Street, and the road collapsed. And they said, "What the heck are we gonna do? There's a tunnel under there. It's collapsed." Says, "Cover it up." Cover it up and put the pavement on top. So that's what they did. So the tunnel even extended even as far as the courthouse.

TI: So it was going under streets, it was an elaborate sort of...

KM: Kind of elaborate in a way, yeah. And you figured, been done by Chinese, were they engineers or what? Because hey, you go right underneath a ten-story hotel or building. You have to have something strong under there. I'd like to go in there.

TI: Yeah, I would, too. And so earlier you mentioned your relationship with the Germans, and it seemed it was pretty close. Were there similar kind of relationships with the Chinese?

KM: Oh, yeah. The Chinese, we, I don't know. With the young generation, yeah, we were pretty friendly with each other. We'd see some of these Chinese from China or the older Chinese, we kind of looked down on 'em because the Issei, like I was telling you about, the imperial soldier with Ito Dry Goods, why, they used to say bad things about the Chinese because the war was going on in '37. There was a little discrimination there, yeah. Kind of looked down on the Chinese. When you think about it, by god, you're equal, because the Chinese built the railroads all over the west.

TI: So tell me a little bit more about this imperial soldier. So a Japanese soldier who ran a dry goods store?

KM: Yeah, he ran a dry goods store.

TI: So what was his name, and tell me a little bit about him.

KM: Gee, his name, last name is Ito, I-T-O, but his first name, I don't remember. Yeah, he was a well-built guy, strong, and made us collect tinfoil, and what else? Oh, when the Fresno city quit using their trolleys, they had the trolley tracks, steel trolley track? They dug those all out and Japan bought all those, all the steel.

TI: So did Mr. Ito help with that?

KM: No, I don't know if he did or not. I don't think so. That was done between the government and the city.

TI: But Mr. Ito was proud of being Japanese, he would collect things? Tinfoil and send it to Japan.

KM: Uh-huh. He was kind of an unusual guy, yeah.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2010 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.