<Begin Segment 26>

TI: But before we go to Sacramento, I'm curious, so before the war in Walnut Grove, the town was pretty segregated. You had the Japanese, the Chinese, and then the whites across the river. How did that change after the war? Did Walnut Grove become a little more integrated with the races and...

DM: Yeah, I think a few Japanese, they moved to the white section.

TI: And so they relaxed that restriction, so Japanese can move over there?

DM: I think so, I think so.

TI: And how about just mixing? Did you start noticing... you mentioned your wife, she worked at the bank. So did you start just seeing in terms of work and social life, more mixing between Japanese and whites?

DM: No, well, white actually wasn't that bad, because they used to come to our store, my dad's fixing shoes and all that, buy some shoes. And they come for haircut, barber shop. So as far as white goes, they didn't bother us that much.

TI: How much interaction did your family have with the wealthier whites like the Brown family, things like that? Was there much interaction?

DM: I don't know too much. But the store that he had belongs to that Brown, you know, they controlled a lot of things. Brown Electric, what else? They had a lot of property, the Browns.

TI: So then your father and I guess your brother, they had to deal with them to pay rent and things like that? They would write...

DM: (Yes), uh-huh.

TI: Did they have very much, like, face to face interaction with them?

DM: No, I don't think so.

TI: How about your wife, because she worked at the bank, did she work with people from the Brown family, do you know?

DM: No, no. Only one might be the head of the place, but they didn't... Chargin. No, Chargin is not Brown, but he was in charge of the bank. So, no, we didn't have no problem with the whites, actually.

TI: Well, how did the Japanese feel about the Brown family and the Dye family, because they owned all, pretty much, of Front Town, and then pretty much the back town, the Dye family. If the Japanese were talking about them, what... would they consider them friends or... how would you describe the relationship?

DM: Well, I don't know. If you don't see them too much, it don't bother you, right? But as far as everyday routine, they pay rent and everything. We didn't have any problems.

TI: Would you, would you say that they were fair to the Japanese community in terms of...

DM: To me, it didn't bother me because I was young, so, you know, at that time. Maybe other parents, other families might have been saying something, but I haven't heard anything about it.

TI: Well, how about after the war? Because after the war, they still controlled the land, and you were more of an adult working as a postmaster.

DM: Nothing.

TI: So you didn't see much.

DM: 'Cause Dad kept the same store, so he was happy. I don't think we had any problem with those whites at all.

TI: And it seemed like you wife was able to get a job there, so that must have been okay for her to work there?

DM: Well, bank was mostly Japanese anyway, because lot of the white girls don't want to work that kind of place anyway, you know. So that was ideal for them, they got the job. I don't know how much they paid.

JS: So a lot of the Japanese worked at the bank. Were there other businesses in town that the Japanese worked, non-Japanese businesses? Any of the other stores or restaurants that Japanese worked at after the war?

DM: You mean like insurance company had Japanese? Yeah, they had Japanese. And -- this is after the war -- the judge, secretary or whatever was Japanese. So, no, they hired Japanese.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright (c) 2009 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.