<Begin Segment 23>

TI: And when you were in Arkansas, did you ever have any interactions with people outside of camp, either blacks or whites from Arkansas?

BK: Yeah, well, I didn't know that blacks were segregated from whites, not to the point where you can't sit next to each other. Because one time we were able to go to town and I got on the bus and went in the back where there was a seat open, and it was next to this black guy. And he got all excited and started perspiring, and he said, "You can't sit here, you can't sit here." And I said, "Well, I don't see any other seat open." And he said, "Did you know you're white and I'm black?" So I didn't know anything about discrimination at that point.

TI: Now, how did it feel for you to be called "white"? Because in Isleton, you went to a segregated school where the whites were over here and you were in the Oriental School. Now, in Arkansas, he's calling you "white."

BK: No, I corrected him and I said, "I'm yellow." [Laughs]

TI: And do you recall what he said? Did he say anything back?

BK: He just said, "I never heard of yellow." But he still kept saying I can't sit here, I can't sit here. So he finally moved. I don't know where he went to on the bus, but he finally moved.

TI: That's interesting, because he was just so nervous or unsettled by having you sit there next to him.

BK: Yeah.

TI: And so what did you think about that? I mean, did you think about that whole experience?

BK: No, because in Isleton, we only had one black family, and they worked for the Southern Pacific Railroad. So I just knew Charlie, and he got to go to the white school. [Laughs]

TI: Boy, everything is just so interesting how mixed up it is.

BK: Yeah.

TI: So you had a black family who sent their child to the white school.

BK: Yeah.

TI: You had the Oriental School, but then when you went to Arkansas, you were considered white. And then the blacks thought you were white. It's just very mixed up.

BK: So, you know, there's a lot to be learned yet.

TI: Well, you were a very curious person. So when all these little things happened, how did you make sense of it? I mean, what would you think?

BK: I just thought it was dumb. And my mother just said, "You do the best you can." And then she said, "There must have been a reason why he didn't want you to sit next to me.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright (c) 2009 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.