Densho Digital Archive
Preserving California's Japantowns Collection
Title: Kay Shimada Interview
Narrator: Kay Shimada
Interviewers: Donna Graves (primary); Jill Shiraki (secondary)
Location: West Sacramento, California
Date: October 2, 2012
Densho ID: denshovh-skay_2-01

[Correct spelling of certain names, words and terms used in this interview have not been verified.]

<Begin Segment 1>

DG: So here's an easy one. Can you tell us your full name?

KS: My name is Kiyoshi Shimada. They call me Kay for short.

DG: And where and when were you born?

KS: I was born in Clarksburg, 1924, May 1, 1924.

DG: Were you born at home?

KS: I believe so. Yeah, well that, yeah, I think so, I think so. There's quite a few -- she was a midwife. My mother was a midwife. But I don't know whether she...

DG: Delivered her own baby.

KS: Birthed herself, or some neighbor came in and helped her. I don't know. That's what they used to do before, was help each other, the neighbors. Horse and buggy days, 1924. So yeah, you know. [Laughs]

DG: Can you tell us a little bit about your parents, what their names were, where they came from?

KS: My father's name is Kenichi Shimada. He was born in Hawaii, southern tip of island of Hawaii. Waipahu, I think, is the name. And that was in 1994, I think it was, 1994.

DG: Eighteen.

KS: Date is January... [laughs] I'm doing good if I can remember the date. It was January, I think. My mother was born in Japan, in 1900. Yeah, January of 1900 she was born, in Japan. Yamaguchi, Yamaguchi prefecture.

DG: And her name?

KS: That was... yeah, like I say, 1900, I think it was. In 1900, yeah. That made it kind of easy to remember her... yeah, 1900.

DG: And what was her name?

KS: Her name was Asako, A-S-A-K-O. Asako... what was her maiden name? I can't remember the maiden name now. Iwamoto or something like that.

[Interruption]

DG: How did she and your father...

KS: Meet?

DG: Yeah, get married.

KS: Well, those days were all picture, what you call a picture marriage or whatever, introduction. And he was in America then. He was born in Hawaii, raised in Japan, then came to California to farm. And I think she was only seventeen or eighteen when she got married. Yeah, because my oldest sister born 1919. Yeah, so she must've been about seventeen or eighteen, something like, 'cause 1900 is when she was born.

JS: Can we back up a little bit?

KS: Okay, sure.

JS: So your grandfather went to Hawaii?

KS: Grandfather must've been in Hawaii, yes. My father was born in Hawaii, so... uh-huh, southern, real southern tip of island of Hawaii, Waipahu was the name. I even visited that place. Yeah, when I was in Hawaii I took a special visit.

JS: So your father was born in Hawaii, but then --

KS: No, I don't think so. I don't think he was born there. I think -- no, I take it back, he was. He was a Nisei. He wasn't a first generation. Second generation because he was born in Hawaii, although at that time it wasn't a state but a territory of America or whatever. Yeah, so he was a natural-born citizen, but educated in Japan. Then he moved to California when he was, I think, about twenty years old, I guess, maybe less than that. I don't, I don't know when he came to America. I don't know. But then he started to farm with a bunch of other bachelors, I guess you would say. [Laughs]

DG: In this area? Or in the Delta?

KS: In Clarksburg, right down the river here. Yeah, across in Yolo County side. They developed from all wild forest and stuff; they cleared it all out and made the farms and dairies and stuff like that. Yeah, they did, they pioneered quite a bit over here in the West Sacramento, Clarksburg area.

DG: So did he talk to you about that time when he was here as a bachelor?

KS: He was a quiet man, never hardly talked. He answered you, but that's it. [Laughs] Yeah, he didn't say anything to me about his bringing up or whatever. No, he didn't, so I'm just surmising all these things. But a lot of 'em are factual, yeah.

DG: Well, so once he married your mother, they settled...

KS: They settled in, I guess it would be Freeport area, I suppose. Yeah, and had my oldest sister, second one was a sister too, then my brother, then I came along.

JS: Can you name all your siblings?

KS: Name 'em?

JS: Yeah.

KS: Okay, my oldest sister is Yoshie. She was born... when was that now?

DG: You said 1919.

KS: 1919, yeah. 1919. And Kinuko was my second one; she was born 1920. And then my brother, Takeo, T-A-K-E-O, 1922. Then my name, Kiyoshi, I came along in '24. And then my next brother, Minoru, M-I-N-O-R-U, was born in 1926. Then came Ben, Ben Tsutomu, and he was born 1931. Then my youngest one, youngest brother, was Tom, 1936, so five years apart.

DG: Wow.

KS: [Laughs] I could remember those kind of things.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

DG: So your dad was farming in Freeport area.

KS: Area, yeah. It was with his father and his brothers, they had a dairy and was doing a little bit of farming too. They had to clear all the land. This was all forest at the time, I mean, West Sacramento area. They cleared a lot of the land and farmed there. I don't know what they raised, but they farmed and had dairies and raised cows and things like that. And for, to survive, they had their own pig and chickens, lots of chickens running free. Yeah.

DG: So most of the Japanese immigrants farmed.

KS: Right.

DG: Not that many were in dairy. How, why do you think your father and his family got into cows?

KS: Well, I think that was the easiest thing to do, I suppose. That's why. You know, it's, if you start a business, then you have to have capital to start a business. There were quite a few businesses going, and I think eventually his plan was to make enough money to go back to Japan. But by that time we had nothing but seven kids, so didn't have a chance to go. [Laughs] But I think that's the goal of most of the first generation, was to make enough money to take it back to Japan and buy some property there and live over there, but most of 'em settled here instead because the children came along. They had schools and everything.

JS: Were there other dairy farms in the area?

KS: There were, yeah, there were quite a few dairy farms. Not a big dairy, but made it kind of self-sufficient. They had milk and things like that. But I suppose collectively they, there was quite a few dairies, yeah. A lot of other nationalities, they had farm, I mean the, they raised their own cows.

JS: How many cows did you have?

KS: I really don't know. [Laughs] I don't know.

JS: Do you have a guess?

KS: I don't know, probably ten maybe. Ten, twelve, that's about it.

DG: And did they still have the cows when you were a child?

KS: No, by that time we started regular farming, you know, tilling the ground and growing crops, so gradually got out of the milk business. Mostly the milk was for their own self. Yeah, it wasn't for commercial, 'cause they, the dairy company couldn't go around picking up all the milk from all these small dairies. They might've sold -- I really don't know, but I know, I knew they had maybe three, four cows and they milked it themselves.

DG: And your mother was a midwife.

KS: In a sense, in the neighbors. Instead of going to Sacramento, cross the river -- it's a ferry, that time, no bridge was there, so they had to cross the ferry, and horse and buggy days in those days -- so my mother was a kind of a midwife-like, yeah, helped a lot of mothers give birth.

DG: Was she paid for that? Was that her job?

KS: [Laughs] No, no, that wasn't her job. It was just helping, I guess, helping the neighbors. Because she was a kind of a nurse in Japan, so she knew about birthing and hospital care. So I guess the neighbors depended on her, so they never went to Sacramento, until later. Back in, maybe around 1930s, then they started, they had a bridge built already, by Freeport, they could cross the bridge and get an old Model T Ford and they'll go town and stay in town. But until then, they were all dependent on midwives. Yeah, or some person that knew something about birthing. But they all, my neighbors were, most of it, most of the neighbors around my age was, she helped, she helped bring them to... yeah.

DG: So did you and your siblings go to school in Clarksburg?

KS: Yes.

DG: The elementary school there?

KS: Elementary and high school. I went through all the elementary, eighth grade, and senior year, right when, on my graduation day we were evacuated. We were gettin' on the train to go to Tule Lake. [Laughs]

DG: Wow. So was the Clarksburg elementary school segregated or integrated?

KS: It was integrated. Yeah, down the river they were segregated, but ours, Clarksburg wasn't segregated. So we had a lot of Portuguese and other Caucasians, and there was quite a few Japanese there too, but not like Courtland, Walnut Grove. They had segregated school because there were so many Chinese and Japanese over there.

DG: Yeah. We heard of those.

KS: They were segregated, yeah.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

DG: So let's talk a little bit about the language school.

KS: Oh, yeah.

DG: So how old were you when you started going there?

KS: Well, I started with first grade, which was maybe when I was seven or eight, I suppose. Little different from American school. We went on Saturdays only, during the school year, on Saturdays, and then during the summer we went every day. We went six days a week to make up for the rest of the year, until... that was all of July, June, yeah... no, June, July, and part of August, we went six days a week. That was pretty rough. But you know, we had no bus service. We had to drive. My mother, she didn't have a license, but she used to drive the old Model T and take us all the way to the school.

DG: How long of a drive was that? How far away is Freeport?

KS: From where we lived, we were living around Freeport and I would say twelve, fifteen miles, I suppose. I never did measure, so I don't know, but about that, I guess. The roads are still there.

DG: And she would have a carful of children.

KS: Yeah, we used to pick up some other kids for, along the way we picked them up and took 'em home. Then we when we got old enough where we could drive ourself, yeah, my brother started, he did a couple of years and says no, he doesn't want to go to school, so he stayed on the farm and he worked on the farm. Then it was my turn to drive. So I loved that, going, driving, every Saturday, driving the car. I was only sixteen, at the time. And every Saturday we had to go to school, Japanese school, learn the language.

DG: What do you remember about the teacher's lessons and what you were learning?

KS: Boy, it was pretty hard to learn because you went to American school five days a week and on Saturdays you try to learn the Japanese language. It's not that easy. Although we spoke Japanese in, at home -- my mother, she could not talk or converse in English, so we were always talking in Japanese -- so I knew Japanese alright, but as far as writing the stuff, no, I couldn't write. But I learned that in Japanese school. Ten years I went there. [Laughs]

DG: We've heard that the teachers were pretty good at the Clarksburg school.

KS: Yeah. This, they had a family, the father taught the higher grade, then the mother, she taught all the rest of the grades, which wasn't too many. I mean, the classes were small, maybe six, seven at the most, some of 'em only a four-person. Yeah, so it was just a two room affair. Then they hired another person and then they had another anteroom, small room that they, she taught one class over there. But I don't know, then when American schools were on vacation, in June, then we went through all the June, all of June, July, then all we had was about three weeks of vacation time in August. [Laughs] That's all. Rest of the time, we went to school, yeah, Japanese school. But I think that was good. I learned quite a bit about our own history and culture.

DG: So you had seven kids and, and it cost to send your kids to Japanese school.

KS: Yeah, they, they had a tuition fee, which wasn't too much, I don't think. It was seven, no, not all seven of us went at one time because the younger ones were too young, anyway. But one, two, three, there were five of us used to go, my two sisters and three of us boys. We went. Only reason my older brother went was because he could drive the car. Otherwise he had no chance of driving. [Laughs] Yeah, same thing with me. When he quit, he said he had enough of Japanese school, so he quit and then I get to drive, so every Saturday I used to drive. Take the kids out to -- well, we picked up a few other neighbors' kids too, along the way.

DG: So some families couldn't afford it.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

DG: Did your family, was your family farm --

KS: I guess so. I think it was about ten dollars per person per -- it wasn't much, but I think it was about ten dollars, every Saturday, see. Yeah, every Saturday, once a week, so we went to American school five days and then Saturdays we used to... then when summer vacation came along, then we went six days a week, until August.

DG: I'm just trying to understand whether your family farm was more productive than maybe some others and so your parents had more, a little more money?

KS: I, yeah, well we, it was all horse and, horse and buggy days. They had tractors toward the end, so as we got mechanized we got bigger, I suppose. But we were too small to -- well, we used to help on the ranch alright. I couldn't wait for my chance to get on the tractor, to drive the tractor. Oh yeah, I loved that. I'd stay on it all day, all night just about. [Laughs]

DG: So what were, what was your farm growing?

KS: We were growing spinach, onions, and other crops, other fresh vegetables to market. We used to take it to, my father used to take it to the market. Then we started to grow, as I got older, and my brothers, we were helping more on the ranch, we started growing cannery tomatoes, cannery spinach and things like that. Yeah.

DG: What would be the difference between spinach grown for a cannery and spinach grown to sell at the market?

KS: Not too much, not too much. Well, to the market, we had to cut it by hand, got to be more careful and you had to take all the bad leaves off, but to the market, they just came along with a tractor, attachments on the tractor and just cut it right along and all I did was just pick out, take the weeds out. The rest of the wilted leaves and everything went into the crate. They sorted that, sorted everything out at the cannery. But that didn't last long. Spinach harvesting was maybe three weeks, I guess. Yeah, that's about it. Then as soon as they quit, then we, after they stopped receiving spinach, then we had to, they were still growing again. Spinach, once you cut, that's it. It doesn't regrow, so, but only thing, some later ones come up because the seed wasn't quite matured. So afterward, well, I guess we'll use it for home use. But we used to take it, I guess my father used to take it to the market.

JS: So where did he, where was the produce market?

KS: Right by the bridge, I Street, I mean, no, it's... well it's a nice bridge now. What is that, L Street?

JS: Downtown.

KS: Huh?

JS: Downtown Sacramento?

KS: Yeah, downtown Sacramento, where that...

Off camera: The Tower, Tower Bridge?

KS: Tower Bridge. No, past Tower Bridge.

Off camera: Past the Tower Bridge. The one past it?

KS: Little past it, where the new bridge is there now. I don't know what you call that bridge, but, I forgot, but right about there. Tower Bridge and a little below, we, they used to cross that tower bridge, yeah, and the market was right along the river.

Off camera: That's like, that's like east F Street or something.

KS: Something like that. That's about, yeah.

DG: So that was a wholesale market.

KS: Wholesale market, yeah.

DG: So in Los Angeles, there was a wholesale market that Japanese had a big stake in. Did Japanese...

KS: Yeah, he was part owner, I guess you might say. He was a member of the groceries or whatever, producers I guess, producers. And I don't know if he got any rebate or what. I don't know, but he used to pay into it too. But it was just seasonal, spinach, and I don't know what other, carrots, a little bit of carrots and maybe green onions he used to plant.

DG: So how often would he go to the market?

KS: Once a week.

DG: Once a week.

KS: Once a week, yeah.

DG: And was his land, was the land leased?

KS: Leased, all leased land, yeah. We couldn't own it. Japanese couldn't own land at that time. They, we could've bought it, as second generation, we could've bought it, but no, he decided -- they were all intending to make enough money to go back to Japan, so they weren't thinking about the future as much.

DG: And did he continue to farm with his brothers and his father?

KS: No. No, he farmed, his father went back to Japan, and his brother, they moved to Stockton area, so he was farming by himself.

DG: So how many acres did he lease?

KS: I would say maybe sixty acres, maybe forty to sixty acres, I guess. Yeah, then when we got bigger and helped on the ranch, driving tractors and things like that, then we got more neighbors to, that wanted us to farm their land. So we used to farm quite a bit.

DG: So that original lease, do you remember the name of the landowner?

KS: It would be hard. No. I don't know, there was a bus driver named Taylor, his last name was Taylor, but, and he couldn't farm it because he was a school bus driver, so we used to farm his land 'cause they were next to us. Yeah, we used to farm there. Neves, Neves brothers, I guess, same thing, they was on the other side and we used to farm. My father did.

DG: Would that be a lease arrangement?

KS: Yeah, lease arrangement. Yeah, every year, certain cash rent. Never, never long lease. Then when my brother got older, well, then we talked about lease and this and that, and we used to have a long term lease then, five, three, five years or so. Because otherwise another person could come in there and take all, pay a little bit more rent or whatever and take over the land, see. So we made a long term lease with the owner so we could continue to farm, because we, he couldn't buy it. Although he was born in Hawaii, but, he could've bought, but he thought he can't buy because, he being a first generation, he thought he was still a first generation, but he could've bought it, or we could've, in our name we could've bought it. Quite a few of 'em did that. They bought land through the son's name.

DG: Like the Sakatas.

KS: Yeah, Sakatas and the other, quite a few of the other farmers, yeah, they did the same.

DG: Who else owned their land? The people we've talked to haven't.

KS: Clarksburg, there was a few. Sakai, S-A-K-A-I, Sakais... I guess they were one of the bigger ones. And of course, well, they weren't, there was families, there was quite a few families, but they didn't all farm, you know what I mean? Yeah, they, I don't know what they were doing, but they probably worked on the farm, but they didn't farm themselves. And of course, like when I was going to school, my grade, there was forty people, pupils, forty pupils in the class and twenty, twenty-one were Japanese, half the class. That was just by the, before the war. So when we had to go take a shot to go into camp, half the class was gone. We'd look around the class, half the people's gone. [Laughs] They all had to go take, get their shots.

DG: You had to get shots before you left for camp?

KS: Oh yeah, we had to get, I don't know, three shots or something like that. Whenever we change... that was one of the government rules, I guess. In order to enter camp you had to be, everybody had to have a shot.

DG: So we'll get to the war in a second, but I want to ask a little more about farming. So at harvest time, did your father hire short term labor?

KS: Yeah, they used to have Filipino neighbors. They used to come and help. Yeah, we used to hire them, my father used to hire them at the harvest time and busy, any busy time. They helped.

DG: Do you remember their names?

KS: No, I couldn't remember. They were here one year, next year they're gone, another family would move in, this and that. And they all, they didn't, they were all like regular Japanese. They were, they just came here to try to make a living and then go back to their own country, see, so they were -- in fact, at least my family and most of the Japanese, brought their wives here, but other nationalities, they, I don't know why they were restricted or what, but they couldn't bring their wives and stuff, so they married other nationalities, Chinese and those. We were... I don't know.

DG: So there weren't Filipino kids at your school?

KS: There were maybe one or two, one or two. Clarksburg never had any blacks. They didn't want to work on the farm, anyway. They were working in town, and Clarksburg was a small farming area school, so there were a lot of Japanese and Chinese and Portuguese, fishermans, and regular Caucasians, landowners. Yeah, we got along alright.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

JS: What do you remember about the evacuation -- well actually, first Pearl Harbor, you were a high school senior. Where were --

KS: I was senior, yeah.

JS: Where did you hear the news of Pearl Harbor?

KS: That happened on a Sunday, wasn't it? I was at home. I was, we were, we weren't quite listening to the radio, but we heard about it, then we ran home and start listening to the radio. But I think I was on the tractor. We were farming, so we're working on the tractor. Yeah, that was in June, wasn't it?

DG: December.

KS: Oh, December 7th, yeah. December 7th. So I don't know what we were doing then, December 7th. We didn't have any television then. There never was no television. Only thing was radio or the newspaper. So most of it it'd be tuned in on the radio, I think, we heard about it.

DG: Was, were there any Issei leaders in Clarksburg who were rounded up by the FBI?

KS: Oh yeah, there were a few, few... teacher, Japanese school teacher, there was some big farmers, landowner farmers. Boom, they got picked up. And some of those were, belonged to organizations, Japanese organizations, and affiliated in Sacramento, town of Sacramento, so they got pulled in.

DG: But not your father.

KS: No, my father wasn't pulled in, no. He was just a regular farmer.

DG: I have two more prewar questions. Were you, was your family involved with a church?

KS: Church? I don't remember. I think my folks used to go to church whenever they had a chance, but we had to go all the way to Sacramento.

DG: The Buddhist church?

KS: Buddhist church, yes.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

DG: And then my other question was, in addition to the language classes, we've been hearing there were community events at the Gakuen, picnics...

KS: Picnics, yeah, they had picnics and -- every spring I think they had picnics -- and graduation, of course, in August because we were going only on Saturdays only, so to get enough days in there you had to go all of July and part of August, then we had our graduation.

DG: What would the graduation be like? Would be out in the outdoors or inside?

KS: Inside. It was hot. No air conditioning. Doors were open, but it was hot. Yeah, it always was around mid-August, I guess, maybe later, August, September. We didn't have much vacation time. So we got out of school in June, then all of July, June and July and August we went to Japanese school. Then end of the, end of August, then gettin' ready for summer, fall session to start. Yeah, so we only, we were lucky to get two weeks' vacation.

DG: So those picnics in the spring, what would they be like?

KS: It was, everybody brought their own lunches, and it's all, how would you say it... what would you call that now? Everybody brought their own favorites or whatever.

Off camera: Potluck.

KS: Yeah, potluck. That's right, that's the word. Yeah, potluck lunch. So everybody tried to outdo each other, I guess, and they brought lots of food. But we had to eat it right away because it was, it would spoil in the hot sun out there. But it was just a gathering of all these Japanese, with kids that is, with kids.

DG: Were there games?

KS: Yeah, we had some games, racing, running and things like that, but not much. It's too hot to do that. You're talking July, August. It's too hot.

DG: So it wasn't in the spring.

KS: No, no, it was in August when we had the graduation. That's when all the big parties were.

DG: So George Hiromoto told us about the public speaking.

KS: Yeah. [Laughs] It was compulsory. Everybody had to go up there and talk about something. Yeah, you had to look at the Japanese magazines and pick out a subject and then learn by heart every word, and they'd call your name, you had to get up there. And if you get stuck you're sunk. You could carry notes, but some people never carried notes, and once you're up there and you start to talk and they forget the line, and that was it. They would stubbornly, they would stand there and the people, the parents are getting embarrassed. [Laughs] That was pretty horrid, but everybody had to do it. It was good, though. I mean, it was a good lesson for us, to stand up in front of everybody and try to, you know.

DG: Was that once a year, or throughout the year?

KS: Once a year. Once a year, yeah. [Laughs] We dreaded it, but in a way, I thought it was good public speaking lesson. Some of 'em even went to, in high school they took up public speaking because of that. Yeah, they were doing pretty good. So when the Japanese school had a public speaking, they were right in there. They could... but us that didn't even try, we had a heck of a time gettin' up there.

DG: Were any of your siblings good at that?

KS: My, my sisters were pretty good. They had, they were older, so... and, well, I don't know, my brothers and I, we were just, just, no, we weren't good at all. We had a heck of a time.

JS: Were you and your brothers involved with any of the sports?

KS: They didn't have much of a sport. They had a basketball court, but other than that, no, they didn't have much sports of any kind. Yeah, it's too hot to be playing out there, anyway. But the wintertime or other days, we used to go every Saturday, so other season, maybe basketball 'cause they had the basketball court.

DG: Where was the basketball court?

KS: It was in the parking lot. Just put up two, two backboards, like, right in the parking lot. [Laughs] You had to make sure you don't hit that post. But yeah, that's about it. We could barely throw the ball, anyway. And it's all wet and muddy, anyway. Most of the time, we couldn't play basketball. We had to stay inside the room. But I don't know how I survived, or any of us survived. [Laughs]

DG: Steve Hiromoto said he'd heard there were sumo competitions.

KS: Fourth of July, in the Sacramento Japanese-town, they always had sumo tournaments. They weren't professionals, but they'd just, maybe they went to a few practice. But that was it, and they'd go out there and compete. But I never did compete. We were small, too small. The big guys, they're the ones. There was one family, all seven boys, they were all big and they were always winning. Sacks of rice, they used to carry sacks of rice like... first place, in their class, different class.

DG: Were they Sacramento boys?

KS: No, in Clarksburg.

DG: Do you remember their names?

KS: Nishida brothers. Yeah, they were, they were good wrestlers.

DG: How often --

KS: Japanese wrestling is a little different. They had a ring and then main thing was either knock 'em down or push 'em out of the ring. So the big guys, they're the ones that, the regular guys don't have power enough to push 'em around or knock 'em down, so these big guys just push everybody out and that's it, they win first prize. [Laughs] So there was no competition at all, as far as that goes.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

DG: How often would you go into Sacramento Japantown?

KS: At least about once a week, I guess. Yeah, that was after we got automobiles, that is. We had to go buy... otherwise they'd go in once a month, I guess, with a horse and buggy, and bring the supplies back, and no bridges, so we had to cross the, wait for the ferries to come back and forth. Yeah, I remember that. Then the bridges came in, then the Model T Fords and those; then we used to go into town at least once a week.

DG: When you do think your family first got a car? How old do you think you were?

KS: Let's see now, I must've been in the eighth grade or something like that, I suppose. Seventh or eighth grade. My father used to drive it. And my mother even, without a license, every Saturday she used to take us to Japanese school, until my oldest brother got a license, and then we, he used to take us. Then he quit because he didn't want to go to the school anymore. Then it was my turn, so I liked it. I used to drive. My sister, first chance she had a chance to drive, she gets into an accident. She was saying goodbye to the boys, then boom, they got in an accident. [Laughs] They were a little older than I, so they just drove that one or two times and that was it. But you know, it's lucky that they had Japanese school. I'm glad I learned a little bit.

JS: I have a question. Would you ever go to Walnut Grove, go into town that way?

KS: Yeah, once in a while I'd go to Walnut Grove. Yeah, my oldest sister was married to a man from Walnut Grove, so she, they used to live there, until they moved to West Sacramento to be with us, my mother and our family, so they moved to West Sacramento. Until then, yeah, we used to go to Walnut Grove quite often. I wouldn't say quite often, but maybe once a month or once every two months we used to go.

JS: To go, to do shopping?

KS: No, no, no.

JS: Or activities?

KS: Just to, yeah, shopping we did mostly in Sacramento. Walnut Grove was a small town then. They had a lot of, they had a couple of Japanese stores, I suppose, market and stuff. But only time, like I say, is bazaar or something like that, it's only chance we had to go to Walnut Grove. Otherwise, school, our school, high school and grammar school, didn't go that far. Now they're, I hear a lot of Courtland and Walnut Grove people coming into Clarksburg school because there, there's not enough population out there to go to school, to keep the school going. They closed up down there and they're all coming to this Clarksburg school. Yeah, we had people coming from West Sacramento. That kept the school going. Otherwise, there wasn't enough amount of people. After the second generation graduated, that was it. The third generation's too far apart. [Laughs] Yeah.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

JS: So we were talking about Pearl Harbor, and you were out in the field and you heard about that, and what did your family do to get ready to leave? Do you remember what happened?

KS: Well, there wasn't much we could do. Nobody said anything that we should do or anything. We always worried about being taken, taken away, and sure enough, they came. Yeah, we were evacuated. We all thought we were going to concentration camp, you know. We heard so much about the German concentration camps, so I thought it was gonna be quite a fate, but no, it turned out to be pretty good. Yeah, it's just like, see, we were from the country, not too many Japanese neighbors, and all of a sudden, that's all you see when you went into Tule Lake. It was quite a difference.

DG: So between Pearl Harbor and when you had to leave, what was it like going to Clarksburg High?

KS: You know, Clarksburg never segregated. They never said anything bad about us. See, half of my senior class -- I was a senior then -- half of my senior class, out of forty-two, I think twenty-two were Japanese, so whenever we went to inoculation -- before going into camp we did, was mandatory, we had to have inoculation -- so we'd go into class and there's hardly anybody in the class. Yeah, they've all left already.

DG: So people were --

KS: But quite a few, percentage wise, I'd say about thirty percent was Japanese, I think. The rest were Caucasians.

DG: So what did your family, when it became clear you were gonna have to leave, you were gonna be forced to leave, what did your parents do about your farm?

KS: They, see, they were leasing at the time, so they just let the crop go. We had some crop growing already, so we just left it and one of the, some of the neighbors came and took over, I guess. There's nothing we could do about it.

DG: What about your possessions in your house?

KS: Equipment and stuff.

DG: Equipment.

KS: Yeah, we had some trusted neighbors, so they stowed it for us. We had a car stored, and then when it came time where we could have automobiles in camps we sent for our car, and good neighbor, they took it out of storage, filled it with gas and came all the way. They went to, what was that town in Nevada? Anyway, they drove it all to a place in Nevada, and my father and my older brother went to there and they got the car. Yeah, it was quite a, you don't even expect any kind of, people to do that for you. They didn't put in extra miles or anything. They didn't, they filled up the gas and everything. They came all the way up there.

DG: Do you remember the name of that family?

KS: I really don't know. I forgot the name. I think Scribner or something like that. Name of Scribner. They had a, I think there's some of the, of course the original ones have passed away, and the kids are still around Clarksburg, other side of the river.

DG: So they kept, they took care of all of your possessions, this family?

KS: No, just the, just the car. Rest of it, we just left it. Yeah, we just had to, just locked the door and leave. We didn't own the house, so it's all rented. We, when we rented the field, the farm, well the house came with it. So I think some... the night before we left, there was a madhouse. They all came and started taking the tables and chairs and all kind of thing, because we were leaving the next day. They knew that, so they came, and yeah, they took all the dining room tables, chairs, all the furniture, whatever they could carry, radios and things like that. We couldn't take anything with us. Well, we had a suitcase our clothes were in. That's all.

DG: So the house you leased was furnished?

KS: It wasn't furnished. Oh, they had some furniture, yeah. They had some furniture, but not much. We had to furnish that. We had to buy our own tables and chairs and kitchen stove and stuff like that.

DG: So when the people were, if the people were coming right before you left, weren't they offering you any money for it?

KS: Well, we were charging, not much, but we were charging a little bit, but boy, the night before, they didn't, they didn't pay us or anything, I don't think. They just came and took it. We just had our bed to sleep in. I, even that, I guess after we left they all came and took the beds and stuff, I suppose now. Because after the war, I don't know what happened, but we, I was in the service anyway, but they were let out of camp. My brother, older brother got a discharge, special family emergency. They had to leave Tule Lake, so my oldest brother which was, he was in the service too, the Red Cross got him out so he could lead the family back to wherever. So he brought the whole family back to Sacramento, Walnut Grove, and we settled out there for a while, and then we moved to West Sacramento. We found some, some... well, one of our prewar neighbor, Japanese fellow, they owned that one land out there, about sixty acres, so he was looking for some tenants to take care of that, so came, we were just lucky that we had a neighbor like that. That's how we started farming.

DG: What was the name of that neighbor? Do you remember, in West Sacramento?

KS: I don't know. I forgot what the name, name of the person was.

DG: Were they living on the property too?

KS: Part of it, yeah. Part of it they were, because that was their, see, they were living in Clarksburg and this property was in West Sacramento, so there was hardly anything, no building at all on the farm there. So there was one small shack, probably they might've lived there busy time, so they built a little shack, and we were living in that little shack, until it burned down. [Laughs] So we had to go to our neighbor's and stay with the neighbor until we could build another house there.

JS: How did it burn down? Do you know what happened?

KS: Well, what happened was, it was a cold winter day and we had some, you know what ofuro is? A separate bathroom. Okay, so we had some electric wires going to the bathroom, bath house, it's called a bath house, and then the wires must've crossed like that and started a fire. Yeah, because it was really windy that night. Next thing you know, we were -- middle of the night, now -- so we were, see all those bright fire, so we got out of there and saved our life. Lucky we got out of there in time.

DG: Was that shortly after the war?

KS: Yeah, it wasn't too long after the war, after we settled there, yeah. 'Cause that house was, yeah, that house was, I don't know, during the war, whether somebody lived there or not. It probably was some Filipino, somebody was living there, I suppose. Because by the time I came home from the service, my father and mother and the kids were all, they cleaned up the house and they were living in there already.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

DG: Let's go back and talk a little bit more about when your family left to go to Tule Lake. Can you tell about that?

KS: Well, we just got the notice. We had to, certain amount of packing we had to do, and that's all we could carry, and we're supposed to meet at Clarksburg school, schoolyard. So I don't know how we got to the schoolyard, whether my neighbor, one of our neighbors took us there, or, somehow we got to the schoolyard, and then they put us on these army trucks and took us to Freeport Bridge. That's where the train was waiting, right by the Freeport Bridge. Transferred everything onto the train and took off, whatever we could carry.

JS: So you went directly from the Freeport Bridge to Tule Lake?

KS: That's it. We were the first Californians to go to Tule Lake. They had Oregon and Washington people already there, so we were mixed into that group there, so I got to know a lot of Oregon, Washington people. Yeah, they were all nice people. That was quite an experience for us, because I'd just turned eighteen, so we got, all we did was roam around all over camp looking for people and interesting things happening.

JS: Did you have a job in the camp?

KS: Yeah. I was working in the mess hall. They all, we all decided, my uncle especially, said, "Let's all go into the mess hall, work in the mess hall. At least you get to eat." So we all joined there and we were cook's helper and things like that. Then afterward we were servers. We had to serve all these people.

DG: Your father and your mother too?

KS: No, my father, yeah, he worked in the mess hall, but my mother didn't. No, she stayed home, stayed home. But my father helped in there. He was one of the cooks, helped out a little bit. It was quite an experience. We, like I say, I was, I just turned eighteen, my brother, my older brother's twenty and my next brother was sixteen, so yeah, we had, we had a pretty good time. Got to know a lot of people, Oregon and Washington people. They were already there in the camp. And otherwise we'd, I don't now, we wouldn't have known any of the Oregon, Washington people. They didn't, I didn't even know they existed up that way.

DG: So you said you were in the military. Were you in the 442nd?

KS: No, I didn't go in the 442nd, although I trained for it. But by the time we were halfway across the ocean, war ended in Europe, so we continued on and let the veterans come home and we took their place as, constabulary forces they call it. They didn't call it occupational force; they called it constabulary force. So we had to do a lot of policing, make sure everything was alright. Yeah.

DG: Where were you stationed?

KS: In Stuttgart, Germany. It wasn't too bad. It was nice. I was a supply sergeant, so I had all, anything I want to eat. [Laughs] Supplies, I got, yeah, came through me first.

JS: What was Germany like after the war?

KS: Huh?

JS: What was Germany like?

KS: When we first got there, it was a mess. They wouldn't, they had dead animals out in the field and everything, and airplanes burned up and everything on the side. But they really did a good job cleaning up everything. Yeah, they did a real good job. And by the time, maybe about six months later, you couldn't tell there was war there. The buildings were all rebuilt. So I was stationed in Stuttgart and that was pretty good.

DG: So Tule Lake had a different history than the other...

KS: Well, yeah, at the beginning it was just like any camp. Then they decided, decided to, there's a lot of people wanted to go back to Japan and they were, what do you call, hardheads or whatever you wanna call it, and they were, these people were trying to get most of the citizens to join them and go back to Japan. And most of 'em were hardcore. By that time I was out of there. We were working in Idaho, farming.

DG: So when -- your whole family?

KS: No. The first year my brothers and I and some friends, we all went to Idaho to work, and the following spring, that's when my, I took my father and my brother-in-law, and we all stayed together on one farm.

DG: How did you hear about the work in Idaho?

KS: Well, I guess some of the older ones, they went to work for harvest time, only just for harvesting. Soon as the harvesting was over they all came back, and we all greeted them. They all came home on the bus and they all parked on certain blocks, I guess it was. We were living in certain blocks, and they came and unloaded over there and we said, "My goodness, what a good thing to do, go work and get paid for it and all the eat you want." So the following spring we signed up and we left. We didn't want to stay in camp. So we went to Idaho. That was close as they could, they couldn't hire us in California. Probably west, no, eastern Oregon and Washington we could've gone too, but Idaho seemed like ideal place, so we went to Idaho.

DG: And that was just for the season?

KS: Yeah. We, first year was just during the harvest season, maybe two months, I guess it was. And the following year, we went in springtime and stayed all spring, and I think until fall, then I got my draft notice, so I went back to camp. And then they caught up with me. I sent in the change of address, they sent me one in camp, so I says, well, a bunch of us says, "Well, let's go back to Idaho." So we went back to Idaho and then we had, still had to, change of address, we had to send it in to the county, so they called, caught us again. Then finally, instead of sending us a regular... they sent us a physical, we had to go get our physical. It wasn't just a draft notice; it was a physical, as if we were already in. So we had to go, then that's how they got us. We were in the military.

DG: So you didn't want to go?

KS: No, not necessarily. We were eighteen, nineteen years old, and the war was still going on. So until they drafted us and told us we -- like I went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma and I was in the field artillery. We learned... I guess they go by education or something. I didn't go to college, but I did pretty good in high school, so all the smarter ones went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, learned field artillery. But when we were halfway across the ocean, ready to go fight in Europe, the war ended over there. So we were lucky. Yeah, we thought we were gonna turn around and go to the Pacific, but no, they kept on going, sent us to Europe.

DG: So with those "loyalty questions," you must've answered "yes."

KS: Yeah. "Yes-yes."

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

DG: But then when they sent you the draft notice, you would kind of ignore it, move on.

KS: Well, first, first, yeah, we used to... [Laughs] I wouldn't say ignore it, but more or less like we'd go to Idaho and get away from it. Then we'd have to, law says we have to send in the change of address, so we'd send it in and soon they sent me another notice in Idaho, so we went back to camp again. Then I sent in another order, change of address, and then they caught up with me, finally caught up with me, so they, instead of telling me to, what you call, they sent me, told me to go directly to my physical. I had to go to Fort Douglas and get my physical.

DG: So were you feeling ambivalent, like part of me really doesn't want to do this because... or what were you thinking or feeling?

KS: Well, I was, it didn't matter to me because I was eighteen, I was an American citizen, I didn't have too much worry. I knew we would be called one, one of these days we were gonna be called to serve anyway. So we just took it as is, and when they sent me a notice, well, I would do it. I kind of evaded it for a couple of times, by going, changing my address back and forth. But then, that kind of, I think, helped me, because if, when I finished my basic and I was halfway across the ocean, war ended in Europe. Now, supposing I didn't go through all that and I have to, they would've caught me anyway, earlier, three months earlier maybe, then I would've been gone maybe. I would've been in the 442nd, I suppose, in the field artillery part, 552nd they called it. I would've been there, I suppose. But you never know. That's fate. Yeah, we're just lucky, that's all.

DG: So when, so you said that one of your brothers got a special release to bring your parents back.

KS: My oldest brother, my oldest brother, through the Red Cross, American Red Cross. I guess my folks, they appealed to the Red Cross to have him out of the military and take care of the family.

DG: Were they, were they sickly?

KS: No. No, they weren't sickly. They were, I think my father, I don't know how old he was. He was, must've been about sixty years old, I suppose, and I guess that was enough.

JS: So your oldest brother, when was he drafted?

KS: He got drafted, him and I, we went the same time.

JS: Same time.

KS: Yeah, both of us went the same time. Same day, Fort Douglas, Utah. Yeah, we were, he was working in Utah and I was working in Idaho, then when we got our notice we went back to Utah. My parents were in that camp in Utah, Topaz, Utah, so we went back there. Then finally when I sent change of address he did the same thing, so they caught us both.

JS: So your family moved from Tule Lake to Topaz.

KS: That's right.

JS: I see.

KS: See, they had to either stay in Tule Lake or move, so we told 'em to go to Topaz instead, get away from Tule Lake 'cause it had a bad rep there. So that's what they did. They moved to Topaz.

DG: And did your sisters go with them?

KS: My sisters, they were married already. One was married before the war, and the other married in camp, so they went somewhere else. I don't know where they went. All I know is they went back to Walnut Grove. The family came from Walnut Grove, so they went back to Walnut Grove. Then my folks, I don't know why they went to West Sacramento, but they knew one farmer, one person that had a farm there, and he was looking for someone to take care of the farm for them, so lucky my parents just happened to be there. And they were neighbors before the war, so he called and I guess, one way or the other, and then we started farming there, my folks did.

DG: Were you still in the service?

KS: I was still in the service, so all I knew was they got out of camp and they moved to West Sacramento, or Walnut Grove first. Then my brother got a, the folks appealed to the Red Cross, I guess, being that he was the oldest son, head of the family, so they got him out of the service to relocate the parents. So that's why he got out of the service and came to Walnut Grove, and then stayed there for maybe a couple of months, then went to West Sacramento. They heard that there was a farmer that wanted some tenant to farm there and they had a small house there.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

DG: So I was asking, I know that when many Japanese Americans returned and they couldn't find housing, like the churches or the language schools would serve as kind of a hostel.

KS: Right, right.

DG: So in Walnut Grove, when your parents moved there temporarily, do you know where they were living?

KS: See, my oldest sister was married to a person from Walnut Grove, so they all went back to Walnut Grove. My family, they invited my family, my mother and father to come over there. The rest of 'em were all on their own. My brothers, my sister, they were all on their own. So that's how we went to Walnut Grove. Otherwise, could've been Sacramento.

DG: I see.

KS: But Walnut Grove seemed like -- my sister, oldest sister's family was there and they had the space to put my mother and father, so that's what they did. Then when we started coming home from the service, then they moved to West Sacramento. They had one, one of our prewar neighbor, they owned some land in West Sacramento, he had a house there and so far nobody was living or farming that ground. So my brother said, "Okay, put us there and we'll farm it for you." That's how we started farming. Otherwise, I don't know what kind of business I would've been in.

DG: And what were you growing in that West Sacramento land?

KS: We used to grow, mainly it was tomato, cannery tomato, and sugar beets. They had a factory in Clarksburg, so we used to grow sugar beets. And as more, me, my brother was by himself at the time. Then I got out of the service and my younger brother, next brother was, got discharged also. So we formed the Shimada Brothers, Incorporated and started farming. We got to around three thousand acres at one time, farming tomatoes, sugar beets, wheat, and corn and all kind of crop. Wherever we could find some land, open land that people wanted us to farm, we would farm.

DG: So it was all leased.

KS: Leased, yeah, of course. On a share basis, all share basis. No cash, all share basis, so if you had a good crop then landowner'd make good money, but we got an equal share, anyway.

DG: And where did you live? Did you stay on that West Sacramento...

KS: Myself, we, after the first couple of years, we made enough money, so my folks, they were living in Walnut Grove yet at my oldest sister's place. So we bought a ranch with a house and a barn there, and we put them up over there.

DG: Near Walnut Grove?

KS: No, in West Sacramento. West Sacramento. So we made a headquarters there, Shimada Brothers, and we started farming, and yeah, we were farming about three thousand acres at one time.

DG: And where did you live?

KS: I lived in... that's a good question. My wife, my wife and I, we lived in Sacramento for a while, and then I built the house. Yeah, we built the house, we had, well, I had a contractor build a house from Sacramento. My brother-in-law, he had a five acre piece, so I bought one third of an acre on the corner and I had a house built there, three bedroom house.

DG: Where is that?

KS: That was, what year was that, '56?

DG: In Clarksburg, or West Sacramento?

KS: West Sacramento.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

DG: And you haven't mentioned the wife 'til now, so how did you meet your wife?

KS: [Laughs] Well, at that time they were all prearranged -- not prearranged, but all relatives, they try to marry into other families. So I met my wife at West Sacramento. There was another oldtime farmers and it was one of her relative's daughter.

DG: After the war.

KS: This is after the war, yeah. This is back in '56. That's when I got married, 1956.

DG: And where, where did you marry? Where was the wedding?

KS: Sacramento.

DG: The Buddhist church?

KS: Buddhist church, yes. Buddhist church, and that was the old church, not the new one now. The old one, on N Street, I guess it is. It's an old, small church.

DG: And what was your wife's name?

KS: Her name was, last name's Takagi.

DG: Takagi?

KS: Takagi, yeah. Tokiko Takagi. And I didn't know the family or anything. It was more like an arranged kind. Showed me the picture and, "Will you, are you willing to meet her?" I said yeah, okay. Why not? Anybody wanna come to the farm and be a housewife on the farm, more power to 'em. [Laughs] So yeah, she --

JS: She was from a farm family, farming family?

KS: No, she was a banker's daughter. Yeah, I mean, banker, but she was a, worked in the bank. Banker's daughter, we call it. [Laughs]

DG: And so you built a house pretty quickly.

KS: After one year. After one year. We were pretty successful in our farming operation, so we bought some land and on that land I built the house.

DG: Do you still live in that house?

KS: No, no, no. We sold that. We had to move out when we... they were rebuilding all of West Sacramento. At that time they were buying up land, some big construction company. Never went through, so it's still the same, it's still there.

DG: The house is still there.

KS: They broke 'em, they busted up the house alright. They tore it down. But you know, because they had to get ready to put their own homes there, but that never went through.

DG: So there was gonna be a big subdivision.

KS: Yeah, that's what it was.

DG: So they bought your property.

KS: They bought my property and my neighbors' property and all that.

DG: Did you get a good price? Were you, did you want to sell?

KS: Pretty good, yeah. That was, what we got, I bought a home in town. Not I bought a home, I had a contractor build a house for me, and still had money left. Yeah, we were lucky. And then that's how we got started.

DG: Again in West Sacramento?

KS: No. Yeah, I guess it was in West Sacramento. [Laughs] Yeah, West Sacramento. That was, my brother-in-law had five acres of land there, and I bought one corner, one third of an acre, and he says, "Okay, you can, since you got married, go ahead and build a house there."

Off camera: Kay, Kay, she confused you. She's talking about, their second house after West Sacramento, did you move into midtown, or did you move into Sacramento?

KS: This is not in town. This is outside of town in the farm area.

Off camera: Right.

DG: But then you said that the, they came and bought all that property.

KS: Yeah.

DG: And tore it...

KS: Yeah, they, as it turned out, they were gonna rebuild and they tore all the houses down.

DG: So if you built that house in 1956 --

KS: '56.

DG: -- when did they come...

KS: We moved out of there in '59.

DG: Oh, really quickly.

KS: Yeah, '59 I moved into town.

DG: Into Sacramento.

KS: Into Sacramento. We weren't forced to or anything like that, but it just happened, you know? I bought a house in Sacramento instead.

DG: Did you continue, did the Shimada Brothers continue?

KS: No, no, we had already, it was incorporated. We sold everything out in 1958. We sold out everything, farm, all the equipment.

DG: Wow. So then what did you do for a living?

KS: Retired. [Laughs] I didn't do anything. Yeah, we were all retired by then.

DG: So you've been retired for fifty years?

KS: Oh, yeah. Don't I look it? [Laughs]

DG: So you were able to quit working at age thirty-eight?

KS: No, not thirty-eight.

DG: But you're eighty-eight.

KS: I'm eighty-eight, yeah.

DG: That's more than fifty years ago. I think, wait, are you sure --

KS: I guess so. I didn't, I didn't... yeah, I guess that's what it was. We didn't farm too long, no. We started in '46, 1946. That's when we were, I mean, my folks and them, they were released from camp and they started farming, and '47 I think, earnestly they started to farm. Then I got discharged and so we bought more. We farmed a little more bigger. And by that time we were buying land instead, not too big, but enough for a house for my parents and a big shop. And my brother had his home, and I bought, I had my home built out there, and my younger brother had his in Sacramento. All three of us brothers, we were farming.

DG: But so by the late '50s you sold the properties you owned.

KS: Not '50s.

DG: '60s?

KS: I thought, I thought 1986.

Off camera: Who was, who was President when you retired?

KS: Oh, don't tell me that, don't ask me the President. [Laughs]

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

DG: Did you have children?

KS: Huh?

DG: Did you and your wife have children?

KS: Yeah, we had two.

DG: So how old were your kids when you quit farming? Were they out of, were they in college or out of college?

KS: No, they were, I think my son was, just graduated.

DG: From high school?

KS: High school. And my daughter was still in high school yet.

DG: So that's probably in the '70s? When did you, do you remember what years your children were born?

KS: My son was born '58 and my daughter was late '59. Yeah, we had two quick ones. That was enough. [Laughs]

DG: So the mid-1970s.

Off camera: Late '70s, yeah.

DG: So you quit farming by the mid '70s, maybe.

KS: Yeah, I guess. We were, we've been out of farming for quite a while now.

DG: And was it that you had bought property and were able to sell it for a high price --

KS: Yeah, we were able to.

DG: And then you were able to just retire.

KS: Yeah, so that's what we did.

DG: And your brothers too.

KS: We sold all of our equipment at a big auction, two day auction, and about two million dollars. Yeah, sold all the equipment, then whatever land we had, we sold that, and then we decided to be on our own. Then, by then I had, I suggested to my brother that we should have a retirement, take care of our retirement too, so we put some money in there. So I'm living on that retirement, social security, no money worry now. Yeah.

DG: Did your wife work?

KS: She used to work at a doctor's office. Yeah, she was not, but not a money maker. About five hours a day, six hours a day, and doctors, they don't pay much. [Laughs] But we got good health benefits out of them. It took care of us and the kids.

DG: So were you and your wife involved with the Holland Doshi Kai?

KS: No, my wife wasn't involved at all.

DG: Were you?

KS: I was, yeah. In fact, I'm still the president. I've been president for how long? They won't let me out.

DG: Well, and you retired early, so you had time.

KS: Yeah. [Laughs] I guess so. Usually, maybe three years, four years, that's the most, but they won't let me out. And I'm not that good of a speaker or anything. And annual picnics and dinner, that's all we have. I even, this fall, last fall we're supposed to have a little dinner together, but I even cancelled that because I had, I wasn't feeling good, anyway, at the time, so I told, doctor's order, I couldn't have any excitement. [Laughs] So that's what I told the people. I told the people, "So we'll skip this year," so that's what we did.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

DG: So were you involved in establishing the Doshi Kai?

KS: No, not in the establishing of it. I was part of it, I suppose, but I was much younger than the rest of the older people that was president at the time, and secretary and all that. They're all gone now.

DG: So they were older Nisei?

KS: Yeah, they were older Nisei.

DG: And about when was it established?

KS: I think they established that when they came back from camp, so 1946, '45, somewhere along in there, '45, '46. That's when they were, they started the club there, I think. Yeah, they've been there for quite a while. And naturally, all those older ones are all gone now, and I'm one of the older ones now. I guess George would be, George Hiromoto would be the oldest now.

DG: Did you send your kids to language school at the Gakuen?

KS: No. By that time the Gakuen was closed. I wish, I wish they did, though, they learned. But they didn't. Yeah, my son works for, used to work for NEC, so Japanese would've come real nice for him. He had an offer to go to Japan, with a home office out there in Japan, so he was there for about four months. But they sent him back to America again.

DG: So how long have you been president?

KS: Of this club?

DG: Uh-huh.

KS: I don't know, about twenty, twenty-something years. They won't let me out. Yeah, they, I don't know how I got in there, but I was vice president for a while, then next thing you know, they put me up as a president and that was it. I says, "We'd better get a new president, new council members," but nobody wants to do it.

DG: So when it was more active, what would people do, and what do you think its purpose was?

KS: I think at the beginning it was, when a person passes away, that was a great help. We helped all these people. They had, they didn't know what to do. So as they passed away from that area, that was the main purpose.

DG: So with burial costs?

KS: They'd arrange for the funeral service, get the reverend, and arrange for everything, yeah. And then we'd take care of the entertainment or whatever you wanna call it.

JS: So would have they funeral services at the Gakuen? Or where would...

KS: No, at the church, local church.

JS: Local church, like Walnut Grove Church.

KS: Yeah, Buddhist church, Walnut Grove Church if they're from Walnut Grove. But most of 'em were in Sacramento Church, Buddhist Church. But gee, we haven't had any service for quite a while now.

DG: So that was an early purpose.

KS: That was the main purpose. See, right after the war, when they came back here, people, the older ones were going and they didn't know what to do, so the younger people, they took over and formed this organization to help these people with the funeral arrangements and all that. And that was the main purpose of the club. And I don't know, when I got in there -- I'm from West Sacramento. Formerly I was from Clarksburg area, so they wanted me to come in and join over there, so finally I did join, and next thing you know, they got me vice president and soon enough I was a president, and ever since then I've been the president. And I don't know why I'm still the president. [Laughs]

DG: And then it became a more social organization, right?

KS: It was supposed to be a social... mainly it was to help these people that passed away, to help them arrange for the service and reverend, church and all that, take care of all those... and then became a sort of a social thing, parties. And summertime, have a summer outing. In the wintertime, New Year's parties we used to have.

DG: At the Gakuen?

KS: No. Well, we used to have it at the Gakuen, but no heating, in the wintertime there's no heating, parking is bad in the mud, so we started going to restaurants. So it wasn't too bad, but I don't know, I have to go to all the members' parents' services and things like that. Always, I have to represent the club. I don't mind that. I don't mind that, but other than that there's no other purpose for the club, so I've been trying to disband, you know? But they won't let me disband neither. Yeah, what... I says, "I'm eighty-eight. Unless you get somebody younger than me, I'm gonna disband." But they said no.

DG: Well, we want to come to the next, the next gathering. We want to come.

KS: You wanna come? I don't know when that is, when it will be, but it'll probably be February, I suppose. Yeah, New Year's party.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

Off camera: I can't think of anything other than, other than, you didn't, from Clarksburg High before you went to camp, you didn't graduate at Clarksburg High?

KS: I did graduate.

Off camera: You did. Just, but you left in May, so you had to graduate early.

JS: Did they send you a diploma?

KS: No, no, we did, June 8th is when they had, we left Clarksburg, and June 8th was the graduation.

Off camera: Okay, so tell that story.

KS: So I didn't have a service.

Off camera: Tell the story of graduation, so start with, start with what time of year it was. So you were, start with, "I was a senior in high school," then.

KS: I was a senior in high school back in, that was, what year was that?

DG: '42.

KS: '42. And I could hear the graduation going on. They had it at the elementary school. We all had to gather to get on the truck to take us to the train in Freeport and take us to Tule Lake, and I could hear the graduation song going, the people are... half of this class were Japanese, and there must've been a real short service or something. Anyway, I could hear the graduation song going on. Yeah, that was really heart-wrenching, you know? I wanted to be right in there. But see, that time there was war going on, so no nighttime; they all had to do it in daytime. These, all these gatherings had to be done -- no lights, you know. So they had it in the morning, and we had to gather at the same school and with our suitcases and stuff and waited for the trucks, army trucks to come pick us up, take us to the train in Freeport Bridge. That's where we did, we got on the train in Freeport and took off for Tule Lake.

DG: So you could hear your graduation ceremony?

KS: Right, we were, as we gathered at the elementary school, I could hear the graduation going on. And I should be right in there. But they just gave us, they mailed us a diploma, that's all, when I was in camp, about two months later. Got my diploma.

DG: Wow.

KS: Yeah, that's the only reason...

Off camera: That's tough.

KS: [Laughs] When you say...

Off camera: Did the other students, what were all the seniors, who, like who were some of the other seniors that were graduating with you? What were some of the seniors?

KS: Well, there was quite a few of 'em, but see, there were, we had the biggest class. We had forty-two people, pupils at that time, we had the biggest, and about twenty, twenty-two were Japanese, so only half of the class, they were going through the service, graduation ceremony. And we could hear the music going and everything, but what can we do?

DG: So when you were standing there at the grammar school hearing it, were people crying, were they angry?

KS: You know, that, I can't remember. I can't... me, I was kind of sad because I could hear the graduation music going and I should be there. But I don't know. I don't know what, I guess it must've been sad for the rest of the people too, 'cause they had to leave everything, go, get on the truck and get on the train at Freeport Bridge.

DG: And even sad for the kids who were in the ceremony, that half their class was gone.

KS: Yeah, I know. There was quite a few Japanese in that class.

Off camera: Yeah, what was, like, your last day of school like? Do you remember?

KS: My last day that we attended school? Gee, when was that anyway? I can't remember.

Off camera: Well, the day doesn't matter, but do you remember that, did your teacher know that you guys were all gonna be going off to camp?

KS: Yeah, because when we, we all had to be inoculated, so when we left the school, the class to go do the inoculation, there's only half the people there. The rest have already gone, and then the Caucasians were the only one left there, and I'd say about twenty, twenty-four maybe. That's all, out of a big class. We had the biggest class, forty-six or something like, forty-two, forty-six.

DG: But the teachers and the principal didn't say anything.

KS: They didn't say anything. They didn't even came, come to say goodbye. Some classmates did come over, say goodbye. But other than that, we could hear all the graduation music going, and I thought, "Gee whiz. I should be right in there marching with them." I mean, in fact, half the class should've been there. Yeah, mostly Japanese.

DG: So you said some classmates did come to see you?

KS: Some of the classmates came and --

DG: On that day?

KS: That day, as we were waiting for the bus, I guess, to take us to the train. They came with a truck, army truck. We had to hop on that, throw our, whatever we had, throw it on the truck and go to the train.

Off camera: Yeah, 'cause I imagine that's, I mean, it's one thing to happen in Sacramento, but in Clarksburg it's big news because you're right in town, you know what I mean?

DG: You're a big part of the population.

Off camera: You're a big part of the population. So you got to imagine...

KS: I imagine so, yeah. It was kind of a, I don't know how the Caucasians took it, losing half the class. I never did get a school annual for that class. I never did got, get it. So they must've had a class of '42.

DG: We're gonna try and go find those.

Off camera: Yeah, tell, repeat for the camera, what was the class and where you went to high school.

KS: Well, like, I think we had one of the biggest class in Clarksburg. We had about forty-two or forty-four people, and half of that were Japanese, and I could tell because when we left to get our inoculations, there's only half a class left there. Where's all the rest of 'em, you know? But that was it.

Off camera: And have you been back since, to the high school?

KS: Oh yeah, I've been there a couple of times.

DG: Did you go to any reunions, class reunions?

KS: [Laughs] They talked about it, but it never went through. It never went through. We were supposed to go to El Rancho, have a dinner there. I think the first reunion we had, but the class was small because a lot of the Japanese stayed away. I went because I knew a lot of classmates, and they were all good, good to me, so I says, well, I'm gonna go. So we went to El Rancho at the time and they had a party there. But there wasn't too many of 'em there.

DG: Not too many Japanese.

KS: Not too many Japanese, or even a lot of the Caucasians didn't show up. Probably they moved out too, they got married and moved out too. That was our twenty-fifth, I think, twenty-fifth anniversary. So a lot of 'em were out of town or they moved out.

DG: Did you keep in touch with any of your classmates?

KS: No.

DG: So that was the first time you saw a lot of them?

KS: Yeah, that was about the only time. But no, I take it back, because it was, Clarksburg is a small community. They had auctions there and we went to almost all the auctions, and they all, my classmates all treated me good. Yeah, they all came and say hello and all that. We talked. There might be some bad feelings there, but no, we went to Clarksburg, Courtland, Walnut Grove, and we were all treated alright. Yeah. So we had quite a bit of gatherings that we went to, but... yeah, it's a small community, small community.

DG: I think we're good. Thank you so much.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.