<Begin Segment 10>

DG: So one source I saw said that there were about a hundred Japanese families in Courtland before World War II, with a population of about one thousand, five hundred people.

GH: In Courtland?

DG: They must've meant the whole farming area, don't you think?

GH: I think. That's everybody in Courtland and Clarksburg...

DG: Walnut Grove.

SH: Walnut Grove, West Sacramento probably.

GH: Alton. You know where Alton...

SH: They're... Delta probably.

GH: Yeah, I don't know Japanese people who, I went to school in Riverside High School. They all came to school, so that's how I knew them.

DG: How about, like, kendo and judo and sumo? You talked about baseball, basketball, but those other sports?

SH: In Courtland.

GH: Well, they used to do sumo.

SH: In Courtland.

GH: Yeah, in Courtland used to have sumo. Kendo, I don't think we had kendo.

Off camera: I guess I would, my question would be, for you guys, what was the, what was the kind of importance of having the river nearby? Was, did you guys, was there times where people went, not only to fish but did people --

SH: Swim?

Off camera: Did people go swimming?

GH: Well, the river...

Off camera: Yeah, so where, where was the spot on the river that was known as the spot where you'd go --

GH: Most important thing about the river is irrigation.

Off camera: Yeah.

GH: You know, for farm. Yeah, that's the most important thing.

Off camera: Yeah, but like you're saying, where would you go to swim? Where was the spot where you'd --

SH: Well, wasn't it that way? [Points]

GH: Yeah. Well, you know where there's a sand beach? We used to go over there.

SH: I didn't swim, so I don't know.

GH: Yeah, she don't swim.

Off camera: Well who, who would go there? Would families all meet there together?

GH: Well, my friends. These are old farmer friends, we used to get together and we'd go, there's a beach there.

Off camera: Was there ever any tension on the beach, between like, if you're in Courtland and Courtland's segregated and --

GH: They had a beach to themselves.

Off camera: So this a beach that just the Japanese, most, just the Japanese families would use.

GH: Yeah. And there's a beach over there too, in Courtland.

Off camera: What was the beach called?

GH: Sutter Beach.

Off camera: Sutter Beach.

GH: Yeah, the Sutter Bridge is...

Off camera: It's right near the Sutter Bridge.

GH: Yeah, right down underneath the Sutter Bridge.

Off camera: So were beaches kind of like, there are like turns --

GH: Sand beaches.

Off camera: Yeah, but I mean, you didn't go to one beach 'cause you weren't welcome there; you'd go to that beach you went to.

GH: Yeah. Well, I went there because we were friends, see.

DG: So you'd go to Sutter Beach, where the white kids were?

GH: I went swimming.

DG: But where was the beach where most of the Japanese kids went?

GH: There was Sutter and this Five Point Bridge.

DG: Five Point Bridge.

Off camera: Five Point Bridge. Yeah, 'cause it seemed like, from a lot of stories, beaches used to be where, like, a lot of the kids would get in fights and things would kind of, problems would happen at the beaches, you know?

GH: Well, I don't know. We didn't have that kind of problem.

Off camera: You didn't have those kind of problems? Okay.

GH: We had all the nice kids.

Off camera: But there was, but the one, the Five Points Bridge was a kind of Japanese only beach.

GH: Yeah. Mostly friends.

Off camera: And how many people on a hot day would be there at one time?

GH: No, there aren't that many, about ten, fifteen.

Off camera: Okay. Families wouldn't go there together.

GH: No, most of the Caucasian families would go to the swimming pool. Used to have a...

DG: Where was this swimming pool?

GH: Homes.

SH: Well, the private people, they have their own pools. Yeah, Caucasians.

DG: So there wasn't a public swimming pool anywhere around?

SH: No.

GH: I went with my friends. I don't know, I haven't been there to swim, but I've been to other swimming pools. They're friends, so they say, "Come on, George." Some of even tossed me a bathing suit and tell me to swim. Yeah, I swam a lot during my young days.

DG: Where did you learn?

GH: At home on the ranch, in the ditch there. I'd swim in the ditch and then, since I start swimming, I'd go to the river. But my family used to go to Obispo. You know Obispo, San Luis Obispo?

DG: Uh-huh.

GH: Yeah, we used to go swimming there every year.

DG: Did you have friends or relatives there?

GH: There? No. My mother used to go to a, there used be a...

SH: Hot spring.

GH: Hot spring, so she goes to hot spring all the time when we were over there.

DG: Did you guys ever go to the Yamato hot springs near Gilroy?

GH: I went to see, but I haven't swum there. You been there?

DG: Uh-huh.

GH: It's not there anymore, is it?

DG: Well, it's kind of a ruin.

GH: That's what I heard.

JS: It's not open to the public, but it's still there, along with the former housing and the pool.

GH: It's up in the hills, isn't it?

JS: Uh-huh.

DG: It's beautiful, the location.

GH: Yeah, I went up there -- as a matter of fact, we went, her sister's husband used to go around. I used to go to Bay Area a lot.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2012 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.