<Begin Segment 12>

TI: So I want to go back, during the time before the war, in other communities, because of the alien land laws, the Isseis weren't allowed to buy property. But later on, when the Niseis got a little bit older, oftentimes they would buy land in the name of their U.S.-born Nisei children. Was that ever an opportunity with, like, Mr. Brown or Mr. Dye, would they allow Japanese to actually buy the land?

LW: See, they didn't want to do that, because they wanted to control everything. And the Japanese people, toward the end, they said, "Why should we improve our homes when we don't own the land?"

TI: And so was there then, because of a migration out of Walnut Grove, that people who actually started making some money, did they move away and actually buy land?

LW: Well, some people did that. So they formed an association. I heard they formed a Japanese Association to fight that. Because they want to take it to court, says, "Why we can't build the land? We can build the house there, and if you don't own the land, there's no value to it."

TI: So was this a fight against, like, Mr. Brown and...

LW: Right, yeah. And there, they got you over the barrel because you have no choice.

TI: And so did you --

LW: I don't know how much my parents were paying for the rental. It wasn't too much, but still, it's whatever you put in, you're not going to get any penny out of it.

TI: So how would you describe the relationship between your parents and Mr. Brown? I mean, how did they, how would you say they...

LW: That I don't recall, but I think it's, you had no choice, I guess. You got to take it, what they offer you. Because the Issei didn't care, but when the Nisei came, they kind of want to do something about it.

TI: So do you ever recall your parent saying anything about Mr. Brown or the Dye family? Was there any, like, any comments made?

LW: In fact, I never met him. I don't know what he looked like.

TI: And was that pretty common, so he never came into the Japantown area, he never walked around or anything like that?

LW: No. So I think after, I don't recall too much because I wasn't there most of the, after I left the camp.

TI: But I was thinking about even before the war, did he live on the other side of the river? Did he have a house on the other side?

LW: Where the whites lived? There was no way you could get in there.

TI: Okay.

LW: That's strictly restricted.

TI: And when you say "restricted," I mean, you couldn't even ride your bike or walk...

LW: Oh, no, you could to there. Because they used to have a Japanese gardener doing the gardening and all that stuff. But they had domestic, you know, housemaids, cleaning lady that used to come in, go other side for work. Because there's no work in Japanese town, but on the other side of the river...

TI: And how would you describe their houses compared to the houses on your side of the river?

LW: Well, you're talking about, most of 'em are big mansion. Because they were wealthy farmers and bankers and all that. So too bad we didn't the chance to see the other side, because the building is still there, it's a big mansion.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright (c) 2009 Densho and Preserving California's Japantowns. All Rights Reserved.