<Begin Segment 12>

AR: Now I don't know if you've heard this, but there's a story that when the war broke out, the people of Gallup signed a petition to protect the Japanese American residents and that the city council voted to make sure that they weren't sent away to the camps. Did you ever hear that story?

MM: That they...

AR: That the people of Gallup supported...

MM: They took, yeah... well, the thing was that they did, they wanted to take all the Japanese here in Gallup to the camps, you know. And I don't know how it turned out that Gallup was the only one that didn't send any out there.

AR: Uh-huh. When did you start hearing that story? Was that in the 1980s or was that earlier that you started hearing the story?

MM: No. It had to be earlier.

AR: Uh-huh.

MM: Yeah. It had to be earlier, I think.

AR: All right. Now here's another thing. Gallup has a reputation for being a special kind of community, because there were people of different nationalities - Mexican and Italian and lots of Native American people, right?

MM: Yeah.

AR: So do you have that memory of growing up here that everybody got along and there wasn't any, too much segregation or... and especially it's usually in places where the whites, Anglo Americans controlled politics and controlled the power and the businesses, and it seems like then the minorities have to live in certain areas. So, what was Gallup like in that way?

MM: Well, I would say that before the war, the Japanese were doing all right here. Once that war hit, it was an entirely different thing, you know. That's when they started being a little bit prejudiced or whatever, you know? That's what I remember, yeah.

AR: How about the Mexican American population? Did they have to live in certain areas of town or were they free to go to any restaurant they wanted and go to any movies they wanted?

MM: No, they went to wherever they wanted to, yeah.

AR: So you could go to the movie theater and sit with everybody else?

MM: Right, right. Yeah. Whatchamacallit? No, they didn't stop me from... because several of the Japanese people had the restaurants. As a matter of fact, at that time, like I says, they had the Okay Cafe, the Eagle and the Chief, which is you know, Shibatas. They had those Japanese restaurants. And that Eagle Cafe was very popular one and it still is, I think. Once about four years ago, I was still able to get around without being carried like a baby, and we went down there. You know, Shorty took me down.

AR: Yeah, it's still much like it was back in old days, huh?

MM: Yeah. So...

AR: Was the Native American population treated pretty well, too?

MM: Oh, yeah. As a matter of fact, they didn't have much to do, the Native Americans. They kind of held their place a lot and they didn't, I didn't think they'd come around...

AR: Town that much?

MM: No.

AR: Okay. All right, well, let's see here. This part of the interview is going to be kind of post-World War II.

MM: Uh-huh.

AR: Again, maybe you weren't that intimately involved with the Japanese American community.

MM: Yeah.

AR: But did the population of the Japanese American people grow or decline after World War II? Increase numbers or stay about the same?

MM: I think for a while there, they stayed here and they had businesses here. And little by little is when they started moving out to California and Arizona, I think.

AR: Kids growing up and moving away?

MM: Yeah, yeah. But it was after the war, yeah.

AR: Okay. How long did your parents live 'til?

MM: In Gallup?

AR: Well, they moved down south, right?

MM: Yeah.

AR: And then how long did they live, or when did they pass away?

MM: I don't know. Let's see. My mother was 104 years old, and she's been gone for, what is it? I think about ten years now.

AR: Did she come back to Gallup to live with you?

MM: We lived in Gallup all the way through.

AR: Oh, I thought that they moved to... oh, they just moved down...

MM: Oh, they did move, but then later on...

AR: After the war was over they came back?

MM: Come back to Gallup, yes. And, yeah, the whole family come back, as a matter of fact. They used to live right across here on Terrace Avenue.

AR: Okay.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2012 New Mexico JACL and Densho. All Rights Reserved.