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AR: Normally I have a lot of questions about World War II but that's one area where Tom Ikeda really did a fine job of covering your experiences up through, you know, being sent to Topaz and being resettled in Cleveland and so forth. And tomorrow we're going to be asking a few more questions about the Baca Camp when we get out there, or the Old Raton camp. So I'm kind of going to skip over the war years at this point. Let's see, so I kind of want to move into some questions about the... after World War II. And one of the first things I want to ask you I guess is in your interview with Tom you mentioned that you had kind of a rough spell as a teenager, and we don't need to rehash that, but when did you really kind of start getting serious about your education and your career plans?

RE: That's interesting. I do recall that, well... I was having disciplinary problems while in the U.S. Army, in that two-year stint. I guess it was a sense of rebellion that continued on from the time I was in high school years. But I laid in the bunk realizing that I had an opportunity to receive the benefits of the GI bill. And I remember laying in that bunk bed looking up at the ceiling and saying, "What am I going to do?" In about three weeks I receive my release from the U.S. Army obviously to a reserve status, but what should I, what do I go back to? Driving trucks out in California, which I did prior to that service stint, or go to college? But it had been at least three years since I left high school, so I lost enthusiasm for academics. Obviously I was not a good student either in high school, so it was an issue of, can I make that, kind of discipline myself to do something worthwhile? I went back to California just to see where I stood, and my relations said, "You know, you have enough intelligence to go onto higher education. You have no business driving trucks and doing things." After about three or four months I realized it was not for me anymore, so I came back home, worked a little bit. My dad got me a job working in a punch... as a punch press operator and that was the worst. Maybe it was a blessing that I had that opportunity, so I said that's enough of that. So I enrolled at Ohio State University where my younger brother was in engineering and my older brother Ben was in engineering in college over there, so I certainly took that step. And, you know, it was a little difficult making the transition being away from academia for so long. But I struggled and I managed and once I got going with my wife who I had known for many years, that she encouraged me to go on and do something in college. I felt good about that.

AR: Did you start deciding on a major and a career path around that time?

RE: Well, you know, since my dad always wanted all of us to be engineers, except my oldest brother Hiroshi or Hank, rebelled, and Hank got his, post-graduate degree in sociology and anthropology at the University of Chicago. So he was not in good straights with my dad. But I thought maybe it'd be a good time for me to be in good straights with my dad, so I went into the College of Engineering at Ohio State and took up civil engineering. But as time went on I said that is certainly not for me. I said, "What am I doing?" I wasn't interested. So I took a series of tests to determine where I fitted in, and it was in medicine of all things.

AR: Huh. Aptitude testing?

RE: Yes. So I don't know, they got me a job at University Hospital as like an orderly, prior to med school. And... but then I realize now I didn't like blood, I didn't want to do surgery, so I went into optometry and I found my niche there. I wasn't sure that I wanted to pursue the practice of optometry or anything of that sort. I was, had good academic records enough to go on to work on a PhD, but unfortunately my adviser passed away. I was... I went out to practice, he said, "Get your feet wet," but by the time I was out in practice for six months, he passed away, died of, choked on a piece of food and died. And so, I don't know, my wife was not too enthused about me going back.

AR: So, what do you mean, you had a... what does it take to be a practicing optometrist?

RE: Well, I had my degree.

AR: Like bachelor's degree?

RE: Doctor of Optometry.

AR: Doctor of Optometry, but you were thinking about an academic PhD?

RE: Yeah, working on my masters and going after my PhD. But I had that opportunity at the University of Alabama, at the medical center to take, be the assistant clinic directorship over there. And also they were going to defray a lot of my expenses for my masters and I went down there to interview. I received okay, and I was all set to enroll, leave Oberlin, Ohio, and go down there, but we had our two kids. My wife did not like it down there. It was a time of turmoil there, some civil rights issues. Governor Wallace was ordered by the federal government to open the public schools to everybody and of course, there was a "white flight" out of the public schools. It was a mess. My wife didn't like that. She didn't want our kids to grow up in an environment that was chaotic. So I had second thoughts, and I finally turned it down, repaid the university for all the expenses they paid for me to be down there for an interview. She said, "You know, you could be a good optometrist, you could do things well." And, of course, we succeeded financially as well as...

AR: But you do have something of a research bent though that you continued to research and study eye diseases and...

RE: Yes. Even now I yearn to do things that are more academic in nature. I've given many talks, I've guest lectured here and there.

AR: But the field of optometry you moved into was also more clinical, right? More...

RE: Yes, you know, I was involved in so much way back then. There were no opportunities to use diagnostic drugs or therapeutic drugs, and I was involved, instrumental, very much so, with the State of Ohio, and the state professional association to get these across at the state legislative level, to be sure that we have all these rights. Even if we have the ability, we just didn't have the law behind us.

AR: You're saying that as an optometrist the laws didn't prevent you to use medications and prescribe medications?

RE: That's correct, way back in my early years of practice, absolutely so.

AR: You had to push for that?

RE: Absolutely so. But that was gratifying, but you know, there's always deep down... you often wonder what more could you have achieved in life. But you know, thank goodness I have a sensible wife who says, "You know, why would you want to do this?" Or she would say, "Why would you want to do that?" Well, it's self-satisfaction. Well, she said, "That's sort of being a little selfish about your life."

AR: Did you have children by that point too?

RE: Uh-huh, yes.

AR: So she's looking after the kids, too?

RE: Yeah, I realized that the family was a priority. So we enjoyed life, but at the same time enjoyed a lot of things that were academically related.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2008 New Mexico JACL and Densho. All Rights Reserved.