<Begin Segment 14>

AR: Now, as I'm sure you know, in many of the places in the south and even in the west, these theaters tended to be segregated, and kids that were Japanese or Mexican or African American had to sit in the balcony. Was that the case here?

RE: You know, I don't recall that too much but most likely it did occur, but we weren't aware of it. I don't recall sitting in any particular place except in a church where we went to the First Baptist Church, and we had to sit in the back.

AR: Yeah, your family was the only Japanese Christians in the community?

RE: I believe so. I don't recall the other families that were converted to Christian religion.

AR: You spoke in a previous interview about why your parents decided to convert in the '30s, and I think you kind of touched on that and that's important. How did that affect the relationship between your parents and the other Japanese people that may have remained Buddhist or Shinto, practicing Shinto? Was that a sense of tension or difference?

RE: Well, I would imagine, I can't say for certainty, but I guess there was a little bit of resentment. We became somewhat of an outcast since a majority and most all these people were of Shinto religion and came here with that religion, kept it, but the circumstances of Depression years, the death of my sister, made my father come to think that maybe God or the gods didn't favor us. So it was time to convert to the Christian religion that everybody lived by here.

AR: And I think you mentioned that, a desire on their part to make sure you guys learned English was a big factor, too?

RE: Yes, and the church became the focal point for us kids to learn to speak English. Of course, our first language was Japanese. Oftentimes we mixed Spanish with Japanese and not know it, but we had to learn English and of course we were gonna go to grade school.

AR: I see. How often did you go to church?

RE: Well, you know, every Sunday, the Baptist Church had an old rickety bus and they would pick us up around ten, ten-thirty in the morning and we had to go to Sunday school so, you know, we had to show up at church. They were very strict about attendance at the Baptist Church.

AR: How often did your parents attend the church?

RE: I don't recall my parents ever attending church. I know they were baptized in an old muddy creek but that was about it. [Laughs]

AR: Is that right? Did your father ever have any church fellows come over to your house or anything to discuss it with you?

RE: No, no, my father I don't think ever had any contact with church people. I guess they tried but they gave up since my father was a stubborn old cuss that said, "All right, I've converted so that's it. God should favor me now." But that was the end of that, you know, so.

AR: Kind of on that topic, did... when you were growing up and again maybe not exclusively you, but your siblings, did kids from Clovis come to the Japanese camp to play and socialize? Did other kids...

RE: Not... not hardly. We were pretty much segregated. I guess parents of these kids in town really did not want them to be associated with us. We were sort of looked at as oddballs, odd people, practicing Japanese customs which was unfamiliar to them, and they didn't want any part of that really.

AR: And this is kind of the Anglo American community in particular?

RE: That's correct, uh huh. Most people here were, I understood, were of Welsh decent.

AR: Did any, did Mexican or Indian kids come socialize with you guys more or no?

RE: Not much at all either, so we were pretty much kept apart. We, Kimura kids and Ebihara kids always played together, did things together.

AR: I understand that your brothers and sisters had some friends in high school, Anglo friends. Did they ever go to their houses? Did your siblings ever go to their houses?

RE: I would imagine they did that because in the late... in about six, seven years ago when we met with some of the classmates who were Anglo Saxon people, but they spoke highly of them and they did socialize with them so that was great. However, that was limited to our family, not to Kimuras. We were just, I guess, a token... integration.

AR: Do you think the Christian identity helped to bring that down?

RE: I'm sure that helped. That helped greatly, yes, indeed. I think we no longer were foreigners, so to speak, because of conversion to Christianity.

AR: Uh-huh, right. You spoke about Christmas being kind of special to you, too, at Christmastime getting gifts from the church?

RE: Yeah, the church, I think we were so poor that even a little cellophane bag with apples, oranges, nuts and a candy cane, and a little toys meant a lot to us. I mean, it was a joyful time. We would get some kind of little books from the Sunday school teachers and so it was... it was a great time. I think it was in... back in 1940 when my brother finally went to California to find employment out there that he would send money and send money to my parents and say, "Buy some Christmas toys and things for our kids," and at that time we had our first Christmas tree and that was a wonderful experience.

AR: Well, if you don't mind a question about your spirituality today, did your experiences with the Christian church as a youth stick with you or did you have to kind of grow into that as an adult? Or...

RE: Well, I think we accepted that. My mother made sure that we went to church. Of course, the older ones rebelled and they did go to church but they joined other denominations outside of the Baptist faith. So us kids, some of us went to the Baptist church, but I was really pretty much that until I met my wife and became a United Methodist. So church has been --

AR: It's about the same anyway.

RE: Church and... has been a great part of our lives, yes.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2008 New Mexico JACL and Densho. All Rights Reserved.