<Begin Segment 22>

MU: Now, in this particular trial, what was your personal thinking whether he'd be judged guilty or not?

GK: Of course, at the beginning (of each trial), we know what the true facts were. And we also knew possible outcome of the case, and possible outcome is more severe than what we expected. Like the very first case I tried, I thought that the person might get three or four years, but he was given a death sentence and was executed the same year.

MU: Now I know that you're a very sensitive, intelligent person --

GK: Thank you.

MU: -- and when you saw these cases, where possibly the punishment was greater than the crime, that must have bothered you an awful lot.

GK: It sure did. So after the cases (were) over, in 1948, I went into the review session, and tried to review the severity of the cases. The system was that the first set of trial was a trial of facts, a trial of the persons. Then upon conviction, or upon the termination of the trial, all the cases were sent to the appeals board and (...) reviewed by the appeals board to see whether or not the sentence was too severe or too cruel. And so after the completion of the trial, I went into the appeals section to review some of the cases. But the trial board -- I mean, review board, was about as bad, not as severe, some of them cut down the sentences, but maybe two or three acquittals, but that was about all out of 800 cases tried in Japan.

MU: Well, I've heard it said, "If you gonna fight a war, you better make sure you're going to win it because..."

GK: That's right. So, first advice to the Japanese, "Next time you start a war, don't start it if you're gonna, if there's a chance of losing."

MU: Well, I've also heard it said that in the first World War, after the first World War, the Allies tried the German, so-called, criminals and their treatment was overly harsh and might have left some ill feelings long, long afterwards. Do you think that might have happened in Japan when the penalty was great and would leave bitterness?

GK: Exactly the same thing. Nuremberg Trial is always compared with the Japanese trial. It's the same start, same process, same ending. And toward the end of, from maybe March 1948, sentences became more lenient and acquittals...

MU: More common?

GK: Not common, but we started to see acquittals in 1948.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 1997 Densho. All Rights Reserved.