<Begin Segment 8>

SM: I think the difference lay in the fact that in Hawaii, the Japanese Americans constituted a large majority. That is, they were not in the majority of the total population, but we were the largest minority group to the extent that we were dominant in community life. Many of us were in politics, for example, whereas none of the Niseis were in politics on the mainland before the war. There were politicians of Japanese ancestry in Hawaii. And then, well, I could relate many incidents after we were sent to the mainland, and we were joined by the Nisei from the mainland at Camp Shelby, Mississippi, when the 442nd was being organized and trained, even before the 100th Battalion left for combat overseas. Well, the Hawaiians would be walking down the sidewalk, and a group of Caucasians, Caucasian soldiers would come from the opposite side. Well, we would just continue walking on the sidewalk. But the mainland Nisei would step off the sidewalk and let the Caucasians go past. And it was a striking example of the difference between the Hawaii Nisei and the mainland Nisei. The mainland Nisei were much more subservient to the Caucasians, whereas... well, we looked upon Caucasians as equals. Well, we were as good Americans as they were, so we looked at others at an eye-to-eye level. And the experience that we had at Fort Snelling outside, for example, in towns which we visited during off hours, well, it was a time when some of us who looked more black, this is, because they were part Hawaiians -- there were part Hawaiians in our group, and were dark-skinned. When they were refused treatment, or refused service, rather, at restaurants, well, our men would rebel. We would talk to the manager, complain about it, and say, "If you are not going to serve him, then we are protesting this to the camp commander. And you won't have any military personnel coming here. You're gonna lose a lot of business. And he is not black, he is Hawaiian." See, it would go to the point of challenging the orders. Whereas the mainland Nisei, if they were told, "Sorry, we don't serve Japs around here," well, they'd just leave. Well, that I think was the primary difference. I think because of the lifestyle in California, for example, where they were subjected to so much prejudice, and even brutal physical action against them purely on account of their racial ancestry. But in Hawaii we didn't have that. We were at least treated on an equal basis among racial groups. Of course, we were subjected to discrimination when it came to promotion, etcetera, within the plantation. In the plantations, of course, we were treated like slaves, practically. But then we would outlive that. We worked through that, and we went into the business community, and then the public education system, I think, was a great one in Hawaii. Where, see, the majority of the students there were of Oriental ancestry. And we were taught that we were Americans. We were as great an American as those of any other racial strain. We didn't know the difference. But those on the mainland were minorities within white schools, and they were treated as minorities from the time they went to school. I think that made a lot of difference.

LD: It was also true that so many of the Hawaiian Nisei had a much better command of Japanese language. They were better translators for the military.

SM: Yes. Yes, because many of us spoke the language, our parents came from Japan. I, for myself, I myself learned my Japanese from my parents, and we had Japanese language schools to which we were sent by our parents on a compulsory basis. We had to attend Japanese language schools to learn the language so we could communicate with them. And I'm grateful for that, because I find now, in my adult age, that it proves very helpful. It works to my great advantage now in dealing with the Japanese, for example, on trade matters, on political matters. So I have no regrets at all.

LD: What do you... one thing occurred to me recently is that the, one of the hardest things of the MIS was that anonymous service, because they could never prove anything for the sake of their families, right?

SM: Uh-huh.

LD: What do you think of that?

SM: Well, that was an extra burden that those who served in the Military Intelligence had to carry, that they could not publicly be recognized because they were on secret missions most of the time. And if we had revealed to the Japanese that we had Nisei who were translating all their codes and their messages, not only sent overseas to fleets of vessels, and from one commander to another, but right on the battlefield where the company commanders were giving orders. Take the case of Merrill's Marauders, for example. They survived because of the interpreters who happened to be with General Merrill, and they knew every order that was being given by the Japanese before they executed the commands. And the Americans were ready for the enemy. Well, the fact that it was not known to the Japanese that their orders, their messages were being intercepted and interpreted by a Japanese American, served to the great advantage of our own forces. Had the Japanese known that their code had been broken down, or that the orders were being translated directly by interpreters of Japanese ancestry, well, they would have changed their code or they would have used a different method of communication, and the war would have been lengthened. And has so frequently been said by generals in command of the forces in the war against Japan, these interpreters really shortened the war and saved thousands of American lives.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1987 The Center for Educational Telecommunications and Densho. All Rights Reserved.