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gky: Let's go back to something that happened to you during the war. You weren't allowed to become an officer, you and all other Nisei, none of you were allowed. Did you feel that it was racially discriminatory then?

SI: Well, at the time, I didn't know whether -- I couldn't put my finger on it. There was a reason for it, because we looked like the enemy. And actually, that committee I was telling you that was in the War Department committee, the term that they used to describe us was "reprehensible." "They are 'reprehensible' to the American public and also to the army." Can you imagine that? "Reprehensible," that's what we were. But I think if you got a redneck from Texas somewhere, and say, "You are reprehensible in our eyes," they'd blow their tops, right? But this is where our parents come in. They have ingrained in us the values that we hold, which have carried us through, I think. Now this is what I've told everybody. I think it's our parents that have, they have more to do with our coming through without our sort of going over the edge. So when I read that, the term that the committee recommended said they're "reprehensible." Sometimes when I say this is what they said, then they say, "Oh no, that can't be right." No, it's correct. I got it from the National Archives. So this is right, yeah. They did have, I guess, a racial hatred, aggravated by the fact that we were Japanese, of Japanese origin.

gky: Do you think ever regret being of Japanese origin when you heard, when you read things like that, or when you heard things that people might have said to you?

SI: I wouldn't say regret, no. More than anything else, I wanted to prove that we were not. You know, when I was young, we used to play cowboys and Indians. We always thought of ourselves as Tom Mix. You know who Tom Mix is? [Laughs] You're too young for that. Tom Mix was a very famous cowboy, and Hoot Gibson, I don't know whether you guys -- but, Tom Mix was like Gene Autry, but Tom Mix was really the cowboy. So we played Cowboys and Indians. We were always cowboys, we were the good guys, and that's the way we looked upon ourselves. We were the good guys. We're Americans.

gky: I guess everybody, in a way, sees themselves as the good guys. When you found that commission, you got that field commission, what was that like? How did it come about and how did you get a commission? And what was the quote, unquote, "ceremony" like?

SI: Well, I -- see, from Brisbane we have ATIS, which is the Allied Translator and Interpreter Section, that was set up in September of '42, and that was the central language intelligence center for the Southwest Pacific. Now, from there, I was sent to New Guinea, two, three times to stay in the field and to work with the combat units. So back and forth, and after I came back the second time, I applied for OCS, Officer Candidate School, because I felt it's about time I became an officer. So the reply was that, "Oh, we can't spare you, we can't spare you." I said, "Well, I'd certainly like to go." They said, "Well, we'll make you a warrant officer." So I was made a warrant officer. A warrant officer is, in the U.S. Army, a warrant officer is an officer. In the Australian army, they're considered as... not as officers. So, we were warrant officers and we were saluted, but then the Australians just treated us as not officers. So I was really unhappy about that. I said, "I wanted to be an officer." And then about six months after that, they made me a lieutenant, and that's when I was commissioned as an officer.

gky: How were you, how did it physically happen? Did they like give you a piece of paper, or did they have a ceremony where they pinned...

SI: No, they just said, "Here. You're a second lieutenant. Here's your orders." That's it. Because, I guess, in time of war they don't have time for ceremonies like that.

gky: Now, you were commissioned with Steve Kadani, no Gary Kadani and Steve Yamamoto.

SI: Yes.

gky: All at once?

SI: Yeah, the three of us.

gky: You remember when that was?

SI: Well, that was, I think it was in '43, late '43 or '44. I don't remember the exact date, but it was pretty late because I'd been in the army since '41. If I had my way about it, I would have applied for OCS after I finished my training, but then the war came along so that squashed that.

gky: You talked before about the article you want to write of Japanese Americans being of no military value. Can you talk a little bit again about what was meant by "no military value?"

SI: What is meant by "of no military value" is that they could not be used for any military purpose. We could not be used for any military purpose. And so, the 20,000, at that time, that represented a fairly sizable manpower, would have gone to waste. However, there were, as I say, these two intelligence officers who were military attaches who knew the Niseis, had Nisei friends. They proposed, initially they proposed that a division be formed of Niseis, and that, of course, was dwindled down to a combat, regimental combat team, and up until -- you see, we were in combat in mid-1942, six months after Pearl Harbor, we were in combat, the MIS was. And up until '43, the Nisei were not inducted. They were not accepted by the army. So another thing I was looking for was there must have been another committee that met and decided, "Well, these guys aren't too bad after all. Look at these commendations that are coming in from the Pacific about the Nisei intelligence, language specialists, and they're trustworthy. They're out there, been out there performing under enemy fire." So my conclusion is that because of what we did in the Pacific, the War Department said, "Okay, let's start using them." Don't quote me, because the 442nd guys are going to get mad at me. But this is the way it looks to me, because they were not taking Japanese Americans at all.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2000 Bridge Media and Densho. All Rights Reserved.