<Begin Segment 8>

gky: You know, you talk about being discriminated against as Americans, but you have had problems also because you're Kibei, so, I mean, you're sort of getting discrimination from both sides. In Japan you're not fully accepted, you're not fully accepted here.

KA: Yeah. Right. Well, you know, the first-generation people, I can understand how they were feeling, you know. But, I think the Isseis sort of looked to the Kibeis to sort of show the value of the Japanese custom to the rest of the Niseis that were born and raised here, but never been to Japan. Because I think deep down they felt that the Japanese value is the value that everybody should follow. And naturally, if you were in Japan and you were educated under the Japanese system, they expected us to be the sort of the leading force to, shall we say, educate the Niseis here in the Japanese value. And so when Harry and I volunteered, I think it probably really shocked a lot of the Issei people because if there was anybody who was going to volunteer or go into the service, it would have been not the Kibei so much, it should have been the people who has never been into Japan and never experienced the value of the Japanese in Japan. So, I don't know if I made myself clear on that, but I think there was that feeling. And that's why when they scolded us and said bakatare, you know, of all the people, how could you go in, you know. Especially, you're an American, you claim you're an American and yet you're discriminated just like we are. You're in the same camp we are, you know. How could you take that kind of crap and still do the thing we're trying to do?

HA: I think that was also a way to tell their children that, you know, we were wrong. "You shouldn't do it either." I think that was a manner in which they were trying to use a third party to influence the child themselves. And I know some of my friends never went in because of the displeasure that it might create for their parents, you know. And the other people who didn't go in too were people, again, with very strong family values wanting to leave the camp, and they couldn't leave the camp. That meant that the Isseis couldn't leave the camp without them. They needed the Niseis to help them become independent again. And so there was a number of people like that too. So, in a sense, we did it because we had the luxury of not worrying about a family.

KA: Yeah.

HA: A lot of other guys had families they had to worry about, so they couldn't just go ahead and do the thing that we did, see. So, there's a lot more to the story of each family. They have their difference, you know.

gky: It's hard to understand. It's hard I think for another culture to understand.

HA: That's right, that's right.

gky: Especially, as you said, Ken, fifty years later.

KA: Yeah, exactly so.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2000 Bridge Media and Densho. All Rights Reserved.