<Begin Segment 5>

gky: Ken, can you tell me a little bit about why Harry actually signed for you when you were back in camp?

KA: Well, you know, it was one thing to take the exam to pass the acceptance to the language school, but when I said that I'm ready to sign up and they asked me what my age was, then they told me that I had to have somebody to sign me in. And I thought, you know, being over eighteen you can get in on your own, but they said no, you had to have somebody to sign, and fortunately Harry was here. And, so, I asked him, "Would you sign in for me?" because without his signing me in I couldn't have gone in, and that would have been devastating, you know. But, he couldn't refuse. [Laughs] He was going in, how could he let me stay, you know.

gky: Okay, so, you decided to sign up because Harry was signing up?

KA: Yes, and like I said, it's a funny feeling but at the time, suddenly you're an American citizen, you know, make you real proud that you were able to go in. I mean, people today may not understand that. I think you had to be there at that time when you were so down and out, you're not even considered American citizen, and suddenly the government says, "We want you, would you help us?" and you're able to it. And, suddenly you're born again and you're an American and you're proud. You don't have to take any crap from anybody, you know, you're an American citizen, you're an American soldier, you can do something about your country. So, that's the kind of feeling I had at the time, and I think that's the reason why we all went in at the time.

gky: You know, that's how some people would define patriotism.

KA: I don't know if it's patriotism, but it's a unique feeling that because in our case, they said they didn't want us. They put us in 4-C category, and you got no hope of doing anything to prove your loyalty. And suddenly they open the door and say we need to have you help us fight this war. At that time, I mean, it wasn't the matter that you're afraid that you might be fighting your own people, you know, you're own kind in Japan or anything else. It was just the idea that now the door is open for us to do something about it. And it's a feeling that I don't think people today, or any other time, even a normal American, felt the way I think I did at that time, because when you're denied something and suddenly given an opportunity, I think it's a different feeling.

HA: You know, the other thing about the situation was that we were Kibeis, and in our community there are very few Kibeis. I really wonder what the rest of the community thought of us. Here we have family in Japan, we have been educated in Japan, and suddenly we're going to turn around and look like a turncoat to them, you know. So, I think it probably came of a great shock, I think, to the community that we belonged to; however, Mr. Aibara's statement definitely clarified what our position should be.

gky: Can you... Harry, can you tell me what the difference between Kibei in the MIS were and Nisei?

HA: Well, it was mostly knowledge; the knowledge of the language, the knowledge of the custom of the country, their mental makeup, all help in trying to interrogate prisoners. There's a little bit of advantage of being able to know the person better. And I think the Kibei fell in that particular category. And to find so many Kibeis who served, did so well, really makes me wonder why they did so well. Simply because of the background that they had, the family and everything, it would seem it would be that much more difficult. At the same time, the U.S. government, the Niseis in general, looked down on the Kibeis before that, feeling that they would be the least loyal people. And yet, I find by talking to some of the Kibeis, one of the earliest Kibeis that went overseas, it just is really amazing. It really amazes me that they did so well and their heart was really in it, you know.

gky: Can you just tell me again, as you did earlier, that the MIS wouldn't have been the same without the Kibei?

HA: Yes. I think that's the point in which I feel, maybe if you pick up and learn the language out of a book, let's say, never spent...like you take Spanish and you can speak the language even. But, I don't think you could feel what the Mexicans are like, or what they go through, or what they think. And that is a part that you don't understand until you live with them. And by living with them, you know their angers, their love, their father patriotism, and everything that makes that particular person a Japanese, is definitely a plus. Plus the fact they had far more language ability because they had learned it in Japan, whereas the Niseis learned it here, and then not very well. So, the training that they received out of the language school was the thing that enhanced them to a point where they could be effective. But, I think, with the same training, the Kibei was even more effective. That's the reason I feel that.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2000 Bridge Media and Densho. All Rights Reserved.