<Begin Segment 15>

SY: So that train ride for her, as far as you can recall her talking about, was fairly pleasant. I mean, it was not unpleasant in the sense that --

BW: It was pleasant for her. I'm sure for the guys it was not fun.

SY: And even though she was nursing at the time, I assume that they were being fed enough that she could -- 'cause it was a long ride.

BW: It was a long ride. She, I, she didn't mention about eating or the food, but she did mention that there was a nice bed, sheets, blankets, nice and warm. The Pullman, I guess the Pullman lounge cars were quite nice. [Laughs]

SY: And, and so it was she, your father, the three, three of you, the three sons, and then --

BW: Two sons.

SY: Two sons?

BW: My two older brothers.

SY: Your two older brothers, well, and you, so that would be three.

BW: And me, yes.

SY: And then the two uncles, your two uncles were on the same train?

BW: Well, I don't know about my uncles.

SY: But you know that they eventually ended up in Tule Lake.

BW: But they eventually ended up in Tule Lake.

SY: So does she have, did your mother have as vivid memories of Tule Lake as she did of Manzanar?

BW: I did ask her a few questions about Tule Lake, and so she did tell me that my two uncles were very pro Japan, fanatics. She said they would wear the hachimakis around their head and carry the banners, you know. And she said the oldest brother, Jiukichi, was very adamant that Japan was winning the war, they're going to win the war, they should go back to Japan and everything would be great. And of course news was, reliable news might've been difficult, so some people probably heard reports that Japan is doing well, gonna win, all propaganda, but other people knew what was really going on and saying it's not that way, they're losing the war, and probably they didn't want to believe it. But there were demonstrations going on to show support for Japan, and according to my mother my two uncles were heavily into that pro-Japan faction.

SY: So indicating that perhaps she was not as pro-Japan as her brothers?

BW: I don't think my father and my mother were part of that at all, from what she said. And so I asked my mother, I do remember asking her, "So what did you think about the two uncles doing all that?" And she just said, "Bakarashii." She thought it was foolishness. But whether she felt that at the time, I don't know, but it sounded like they're fanatics and that's not her. And as I mentioned, my other uncle was in the army, U.S. Army, so I think she was perhaps kind of caught in the middle.

SY: And did they have family in Japan? Was that one, was that a motivating factor for them to go back?

BW: It was. My oldest uncle was the number one son and so he had some family obligations to go back, which I believe he felt. That kind of meshed with his own, maybe, feelings that Japan is gonna win, and so he and Densaku did go back to Japan.

SY: And did they end up staying there? Or what was, what happened to them?

BW: Well, so I don't know exactly when they went back to Japan.

SY: Yeah, were they taken --

BW: Maybe '45, '46.

SY: So the war was still going on when they went back.

BW: I don't know. They might have gone after the war ended. So Densaku went back and never returned to the U.S., although he did come back for a short visit. I remember he spent about a month with us one summer, maybe back in the '60s, because they were going through some hard times in Japan. So he came to the U.S. He worked for a summer and got some money and went back. But Jiukichi, he returned to the U.S. around 1958, so after about thirteen years, and he then stayed and never went back.

SY: And were your, was your mother in contact with him during this period when they went back to Japan?

BW: They sent letters, and after the war ended I remember my mother sending many, many food and clothing packages to Japan. Apparently when I, my brother was born in June of 1945, I mean, there must've been people preparing to go back to Japan, so my mother, again, she's in the hospital, she gave birth to my brother, and then in August, beginning of August, the war ends. So at some point they decided not to go to Japan. And my mother said that they got a letter from Japan, I think perhaps just after the war ended, so I'm guessing maybe around August, saying, "Don't come. If you can stay, don't come to Japan. It's terrible. People are starving, there's not enough food." I mean, the whole country was devastated, and whether that was an eye opener or not, they got this letter saying, "If you can stay, don't come because it's terrible here." So that might have been kind of like the clincher, and so they were able to stay, although it took a while for my mother to get her citizenship back.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.