<Begin Segment 13>

SY: So do you remember when you first heard any mention of Manzanar when, your earliest recollection of there being any talk about... I mean, when you went to these streams to fish, there was never any conversation about, or was there any conversation about Manzanar?

BW: No. I mean, I'm sure they talked about it, but I was too young to kind of put it all together as to what they were talking about.

SY: And so do you remember when you first recall hearing about the camps?

BW: No, I don't actually. But I do know, like when I was about eight, my father and my uncle Tomiji took me and my cousin, one of my cousins who was my age, the four of us, fishing up at Crowley Lake. And I do remember as we're sitting and sleeping in the back, 'cause we left like three in the morning or something, and so as we were, as they were driving, I remember hearing my father and my uncle talking and I'm sure it was about Manzanar, and they were talking about people and things that happened. So I had this awareness that they're talking about something serious between them 'cause usually they're laughing and that kind of thing, but I had no idea what it was, but it sounded scary to me. [Laughs] It sounded kind of scary and I remember thinking, "Where are we going and what are they talking about?" But I wish I had a tape recorder.

SY: So you did, so your brothers were at an age in camp where they might remember some things?

BW: Yes. My oldest brother would've been eight when he went to Manzanar, and my younger brother, well, younger older brother would've been six, and Takeshi was four, so they do have recollections. But even when I ask them for recollections, they're not very...

SY: Forthcoming?

BW: Forthgiving, yeah, forthcoming about things. And I think it's a Nisei phenomenon. They just don't seem to talk much about it.

SY: And your, so obviously being born at Manzanar, is that actually on your birth certificate?

BW: Yes, yes.

SY: So it's Manzanar, California?

BW: I can't remember what it says, but it might say Inyo County or something like that. I don't remember if it says Manzanar on there or not.

SY: So that was something that you were aware of at a young age, that that was the place you were born? Or do you, do you...

BW: Only, yeah, from my parents, that I was born in Manzanar. I don't remember how old I was when I first heard that.

SY: And your mother must've told you how that, I mean, you were the only one of your siblings born in camp? Were you the only one of your siblings?

BW: No. So I was born in '44, and then my younger brother was born in Tule Lake. But growing up, I didn't know the difference between Manzanar and Tule Lake. I just knew that I was born, my brother used to say, "Yeah, you were born near Mount Whitney, and I was born near Mount Shasta." I thought, yeah, that's right, but I don't know why. They were just words and names.

SY: So did your mother ever tell you about the experience of having a child, having actually gone through pregnancy and delivering in a camp?

BW: No. No, I don't even know how they had sex in camp.

SY: [Laughs] You never asked her, huh?

BW: I mean, my two older brothers were there and there was like four to a barrack.

SY: So she talked to you about the living arrangements, like how she, how many in one room and, and I assume her brothers were in a different...

BW: Yeah, not too much.

SY: So you don't know much about that, but you knew that they were in a certain, she pointed out the block?

BW: Yeah, she pointed out the block. My brothers remember the block number and everything, and what I remember significantly is we lived, when we first went to Manzanar, I wasn't born yet, but we were assigned a certain block near the entrance, and so we were moved to another block for two reasons. Number one, they wanted that block for the administrators and so they moved out, I guess, families. But also, my brother Takeshi was sick and so my mother wanted to be closer to the hospital, because she was already having to go to the doctor quite frequently. So apparently Block 27 was just a few barracks from the camp hospital, so we were there for the rest of the time we were in Manzanar.

SY: So you were, so right next to the hospital, then. Right close?

BW: As I recall, it was like maybe two barracks away from the hospital. So my mother, she said she would go to visit -- well, after a while Takeshi was hospital bound where he had to stay there. So, I mean, she told me years later that it was the saddest thing. He would say, "I wanna go home." Of course, home was only a few barracks away. And she goes, "No, you can't."

SY: So was she allowed to stay with him?

BW: She could visit during the day. And she told me this one story where it was windy, and so apparently when the wind got so bad it was dangerous to be walking around, so they restricted you to your barrack. So one day she was restricted and she couldn't go to the hospital, and she was telling me that she's crying.

SY: So they were restricted, actually? It must've been that bad that they couldn't be, couldn't walk around.

BW: Yeah, again, I guess if the wind's blowing that hard it could be dangerous, could get hit by something. So she said there was a time where she couldn't go visit her son, and she felt bad.

SY: And you were born a few years after -- or no, very shortly after Takeshi passed?

BW: He died, I think it was around September of '42, I was born in January of '44.

SY: So it was over a year later. And did she tell you anything, I recall her talking a little bit about the hospital incident when you were born.

BW: Yeah, I've seen the movie, what was it, Farewell to Manzanar or something? I can't remember, but I've heard about this incident where there was, I guess some people who were accusing other people of either spying for the government or pilfering food from the kitchen, but something was creating a conflict and controversy. Or it may have been a pro-JACL, anti-JACL. It was some commotion going on, so one group was basically accusing the other of doing something and attacking them, and I remember this, according to the film or the story, this one guy was just running for his life from these other Japanese who were trying to get him. So the camp administrators hid him in the hospital and then these people were looking for the guy, and so they essentially buried him under some mattresses in a room. And then, but so I knew that that incident had happened, and one day my mother was telling me that after she had given birth to me she was recuperating in the room, and she says, "Yeah, while I was there, after I had given birth, some kind of a commotion in the hallway," she goes, "there was all these people running around, running around. And the nurse said, 'Oh, we have to hide someone under mattresses 'cause they're after him' or something like that." "My gosh, you were there when that happened?" [Laughs] Of course, my mother didn't know what was going on, but the way she described what she heard and saw fit perfectly with the image that I remember seeing on this film about this guy having to run away for his life, so I thought that was an interesting tidbit.

SY: And your mother was not really involved, she didn't make any kind of subjective statement about the, the whole idea of there being some sort of, whatever, revolt?

BW: No.

SY: No. She just, just the facts.

BW: She never actually said what was, it was all about. She just, she didn't know what was going on, I mean why it was going on. She knew there was this commotion and all these things, and apparently one of the nurses said, "We have to try to help this man 'cause otherwise he will, he might be beaten up."

SY: And your mother really told wonderful stories about, about camp. I mean, she had little, there are, like, all these wonderful little anecdotes. Are there others that you can...

BW: Yeah, like I said, she had an amazing memory. I just wish I'd recorded more of it.

SY: But yeah, did we miss one that I might've looked, overlooked? Yeah, you did talk about the, yeah, the fishing that your father did, that was something that you obviously learned much later. So your mother never talked about that. Did she talk about eating, food, things that ate? I mean, the trout must've been a treat.

BW: Yeah, those everyday mundane things, I don't recall them ever talking too much about it. She did mention that, I guess that first Christmas, Mr. Meichtry drove to Manzanar and brought some gifts and food, and I remember she mentioned that he brought, I think it was fried chicken and that kind of thing, so compared to the camp food, she said something like it was really good, homemade cooking. And then my father asked Mr. Meichtry if he could bring some furniture, 'cause they had left behind, I guess, whatever furniture they had in the house. I don't know whether they sold everything, but there apparently was still some furniture, and so Mr. Meichtry agreed to bring, I think some chairs and a small table, little things like that that weren't in the barracks. So he apparently made several trips, and then on a subsequent trip brought some furniture back.

SY: Yeah, obviously a very nice man.

BW: Yeah.

SY: What was, I mean, did she, did she talk about him in any kind of way as being somewhat closer than other people to the family?

BW: Not really. She never really described him except that he did these things.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.