<Begin Segment 5>

SY: Do you remember your first impressions of being Japanese American? Do you remember when you first thought of the fact that you might...

RN: Well, let's see, that's hard to say, 'cause there's different definitions of being Japanese American. So I think up until Pearl Harbor I didn't even think about it too much. But with the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the beginning of World War II, the day after, I was very aware that I was... I don't know if you'd say Japanese American, but I definitely was not American, unquote, "American."

SY: But going back to elementary school and junior high school, you noticed a racial difference in the kids that you went to school with?

RN: In elementary school and junior high school where there were other students of color, that wasn't too big a deal. Later, when I went to Marshall, it was different but not that different. A lot of the white students were Jewish and they come from an oppressed group, so it wasn't that bad. But yeah, I was always aware that I was Japanese American, but not like really aware.

SY: So before Pearl Harbor, you never... do you recall any kind of racial...

RN: No, not really.

SY: No prejudice that was directed at you?

RN: Yeah. And that's why I remember it so much, 'cause it was such a complete overnight turnaround. I was kind of shocked, I remember that.

SY: You remember exactly where you were when it happened?

RN: Yeah, actually. Well, I remember the day after Pearl Harbor. There was a Japanese family that lived behind our house, and I can't remember his name, but he was also a judo sensei. And I was playing with his two daughters when the FBI came and took him away, so I remember the two suits and knocking on the door and taking Mr... oh, I'm sorry... away.

SY: And you were how old again?

RN: So I had to be five, going on six, I think.

SY: Very young, but that's a strong image for you.

RN: Oh, yeah. Everything was very vivid there because it was such... that's why people say, "How can you remember this?" but it was very traumatic. 'Cause we knew something, I knew something was happening because my dad had burned all of our photos and things, I helped him. They had incinerators then where we burned our trash. He burned everything, anything connected with Japan.

SY: At age five you were helping him doing this?

RN: Yeah. So I remember all of that. And he was... and this I found out as an adult later, that's why he burned and buried anything relating to Japan, 'cause he was a judo teacher too and his good friend was taken away. Because the FBI rounded up all the community leaders, right, teachers and ministers and all that including, especially martial arts teachers. And for whatever reason, he was never separated, we all went to camp together. But he thought for sure. And I don't know how much is legend on the part of my parents, but they said that he had his bags packed ready to go. So anyway...

SY: You have any memory of them talking at the time about it?

RN: No, but the things that I remember is that we couldn't go out at night. And so that was... and then we played a lot of... we did a lot of puzzles and I think we played Monopoly. I remember not even going outside the house, you know, at night.

SY: And this was just the three of you, you and your mother and your father?

RN: Yeah, yeah.

SY: 'Cause your brother was born...

RN: In camp.

SY: In camp.

RN: And there were like three Japanese families, one lived behind us, another family lived across the street, two other families lived across the street.

SY: You all kind of gathered together?

RN: Yeah, yeah.

SY: And do you remember going back to school that week or the way you were treated?

RN: You know, I don't know if I went back to school. I don't remember, maybe I didn't go back to school because I don't remember that I...

SY: You have memories of school, though, before that?

RN: Yeah, yeah, I do.

SY: Because you were still really pretty young.

RN: Yeah.

SY: First grade or something.

RN: Kindergarten.

SY: Kindergarten.

RN: So, well, maybe that's why I didn't have to go back to school. Anyway, I didn't. I remember, though, a lot of the kids... in the old days, kids ran around all over, we didn't have parks or anything. And so all my street friends, they really kind of put it to me after.

SY: You were treated badly?

RN: Yeah.

SY: Really? Do you remember specifically?

RN: Well, once specific is we used to play in vacant lots, and the grass grows high. You pull the grass and there's a lot of dirt attached to it, we called it dirt clot fighting. Then you could spin it around and get a lot of leverage and then you'd throw it. So walking back from somewhere I know I got hit, ambushed by a couple of my former friends. So that kind of thing.

SY: Wow. At that young age it was probably pretty impressionable.

RN: Yeah.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.