<Begin Segment 21>

SY: -- that pilgrimage experience because it was probably a reawakening for you.

RN: Yeah. And I wasn't, I wasn't really prepared. I thought I'd go 'cause everyone wanted to go, and I think we all knew we wanted to kind of make that as an issue, or a pilgrimage, to one of the more blatant acts of racism against Asian Americans. But I wasn't expecting once I got there... and it happened we picked the wrong month to go, and that was December, and it was really cold, and that all added, overcast, and that really added to the atmosphere, I think. And that probably added to this sense of -- I hate to say of returning. And so it was this really dichotomy of remembering kind of pleasant, having pleasant childhood memories, and now as an adult, realizing that these experiences took place in American concentration camp. And it's an example of the kind of racism that's always with us and probably still is with this country.

SY: The group that went, how many of them were Nisei? How many of them were actually...

RN: Nisei or...

SY: Nisei. In other words, like you who were in camp.

RN: There was actually quite a few. I know Bob Suzuki's wife came. There was Jim...

SY: Matsuoka?

RN: Jim...

SY: Matsuoka?

RN: Yeah, Jim Matsuoka. That's where he gave his famous...

SY: Hayakawa's... no.

RN: No. He said, when you ask how many people, it's the cemetery, how many people were buried here, and then he says, "I say it's a whole generation." [Laughs] So I thought it was pretty cool.

SY: He has these wonderful phrases, yes.

RN: So, but there was actually quite a few. Edison Uno was there, and so there...

SY: And were these people you were meeting for the first time?

RN: I had known some of the people already.

SY: But it was largely Sansei organized, would you say?

RN: You know, I think they were... probably, but I think there were a lot of Nisei... I think some of the Niseis don't get as much credit as they deserve in terms of their movement. But yeah, so there was a mixture. It wasn't all Sansei.

SY: And what was the program exactly? You go to...

RN: There was a Buddhist religious service, and then they had a minister from the Bay Area. We just interviewed him. Anyway, so there was a Buddhist and Christian memorial service, then Jim Matsuoka said his speech, and I think Warren spoke, so there was a lot of speakers. But most of it was clearing out the area, the cemetery, pulling all the tumbleweeds, and actually planting new trees around. They never grew, but... and painting the, scraping the paint off and repainting the monument. So it was more of a work pilgrimage, that was the whole idea.

SY: And you were there for how long?

RN: Well, it was several hours. I mean... actually, I had gotten there a lot earlier so I could catch the morning light. That's why my Manzanar monument shot was like early morning. And so...

SY: And you were the only one who photographed it, or were there others?

RN: I'm sure other people shot it. But I had shot that whole essay. So I took all the head shots, 'cause I wanted the idea of, to show the variety of people, old and...

SY: And you used that for...

RN: The Gidra spread.

SY: The Gidra spread.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.