<Begin Segment 18>

MN: And let me ask you about your college experience. You were sent to Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa, in the winter of 1944. How did you feel about leaving Manzanar by yourself, and out of state?

SO: Well, it was the first time I've ever left the family, gone out of state, but I really didn't consider being away from the family because I had done that so often before. And I left with Bruce Kaji; he and I went to the same school. And there was our predecessor, Yoshindo Shibuya, that, he had gone there a semester earlier. So my thoughts of leaving family, it was not, really of no concern.

MN: What was the train ride to Sioux City like?

SO: You know, I don't remember anything about that train ride. Bruce said there was some guy that was riding with them, with us who later became a doctor, but I don't remember that. The only thing I remember is getting off the train at Sioux City, and it was cold. And being a Southern Californian, I had light clothes, so the first thing I did was get off the train and go to a clothing store and buy an overcoat. That's my recollection of arriving at Sioux City.

MN: Where did you get the money to go buy an overcoat?

SO: Well, the government generously provided us with twenty-five dollars to leave, when we left camp.

MN: Did you blow that whole money on the overcoat?

SO: I can't... probably the better part of twenty-five dollars.

MN: Twenty-five dollars.

SO: Yeah.

MN: Where did you stay when you got to Morningside?

SO: I stayed at one of the deans' house. Bruce and I both got a room there, and I think we paid something like five dollars apiece for the room.

MN: And did you eat with the family?

SO: No. We had to provide our own food. In fact, they didn't allow us to bring any food into the room, but we used to sneak bread and baloney in there.

MN: What major did you choose at Morningside College?

SO: Pardon me?

MN: What major?

SO: Engineering.

MN: Why did you choose engineering?

SO: Probably because my brother was an, was in engineering.

MN: How did you find the academic level at Morningside College?

SO: I guess it was okay. I only stayed there one semester.

MN: What was the ethnic makeup of Morningside College?

SO: I think there were only one native Sioux Citian that was there was Japanese. It was a girl. Then Yoshindo, Bruce and I, so four Japanese. And the rest, a lot of 'em were navy, navy and military personnel. But probably, I can't remember, I think most of the students were comprised of women.

MN: I guess most of the men were in the army.

SO: Yeah.

MN: But you're saying there was a lot of navy personnel there?

SO: Yeah.

MN: How did they treat you?

SO: No, they treated us fine. We were probably more an oddity rather than the enemy. Although, on one occasion I remember -- we probably had sneakers on -- walking down in the basement on concrete floors, and I was walking behind a lady and I guess she didn't hear me, but she turned around and real startled when she saw me, and she, her first comment was, "My, you people walk quietly." I thought, what the heck is she talking about, "we people"? [Laughs] As if I was trying to sneak up on her, you know?

MN: So what was the first job you had in Sioux City?

SO: The first and only job I had was working at a diner. It was a corner diner and it was run by Mom and Pop Schwartz. But Yoshindo Shibuya worked there and I guess I got the job through him, so we'd work breakfast, lunch and dinner for food and five dollars. I don't know whether it was five dollar a week or five, probably five dollars a week.

MN: This was a full time or part time job?

SO: It was part time because I had to go to classes.

MN: So how were you able to afford tuition at, with a part time job?

SO: You know, I don't remember where -- the tuition at the time was three hundred bucks. I don't remember where that came from. I was just happy that somebody paid it. I don't think my dad did. And I don't remember if there was a scholarship either, but the, it was handled by my English teacher.

MN: So you were sharing that when you were at Morningside College you entered a ping pong tournament. How did you do?

SO: Well, this guy from South America and I, we were the co-champs, so I really thought I was hot stuff, you know. So I joined the, I got into a tournament, the city tournament, and I just got wiped out, so it was a very humiliating experience. [Laughs]

MN: You also were able to join the swim team. What was that like?

SO: Well, the swim team, I went out, I got into diving. And I soon quit that because I found out I couldn't dive very well. [Laughs] So those were probably the two ego busting experiences that I had at Morningside.

MN: But at Sioux City there, was there no restriction on Japanese Americans going to pools?

SO: I guess not. At least not at, not at the pool that we trained at. But, you know, you get into the Midwest and the East and apparently discrimination wasn't that prevalent as it was on the West Coast because I don't think the populous felt any competition from the Asians, whereas on the West Coast the farmers were competing with a lot of the Japanese farmers.

AK: We have three minutes on this tape.

MN: Let me see if we can [inaudible]. How did you learn how to swim?

SO: My brother threw me in the pool.

MN: How old were you when you --

SO: I was about ten years old.

MN: And where was this?

SO: It was at a pool in Sacramento called Fleishhacker Pool.

MN: So was this pool a segregated pool? Were you only allowed to go on certain days?

SO: No, no.

MN: So this pool in Sacramento was also not segregated.

SO: No.

MN: Was it just in Los Angeles area that they had segregated pools?

SO: I don't know, but this particular pool that Venice High School swim team trained at was segregated.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.