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MN: Okay, let me ask you about your education. You mentioned earlier that the first language you were speaking was Japanese?

MO: Uh-huh.

MN: So when you started grammar school, was that a problem, understanding?

MO: I don't remember. I think I understood enough. I remember my kindergarten teacher was Miss Cup, and I remember she was kind of a tall, angular, blond-haired lady that had long earrings, or what I thought of as long. And she was very kind to us. Actually, as I think back, I think all of them were kind to us.

MN: And then the grammar school that you attended, what was the name of the grammar school?

MO: We started in kindergarten at Burbank Elementary School, which was on the corner of San Fernando Road and Magnolia. Then after the fourth grade, they closed the school, and it became the board of education. So then we had to go up the hill to Ralph Waldo Emerson elementary school, and that's where the wealthier people lived. So we would always go kind of in convoy because we didn't know what to expect up there. Because we had the poor kids from, Mexican kids, the Okies, poor "white trash." Yeah, that's who we were. Those were my friends. [Laughs]

MN: So staying at the Burbank Elementary School, how did you get along with the other students?

MO: I didn't feel any differently than they did. But it seems that I always did really well in school. Except in the fourth grade, Mrs. Clayton, "Mean Mrs. Clayton" would send me out of the room every day, and my job was to go to the office and crank the mimeograph machine. To this day, I remember three cranks for one piece of paper.

MN: I'm going to ask you about her later on, because she was kind of prominent right before the war, too. But let me ask you about your Japanese school. Which Japanese school did you go to?

MO: We went to the one in North Hollywood. It was on a street called Whitnall Highway, and later on, when we came back after the war, it was a lodge house for, it was a fraternal organization known as the Eagles. They're sort of like the Elks and the Oddfellows. But it was a wooden frame building and really dusty. Seemed like they were always sprinkling water in the place.

MN: So is this building still in existence?

MO: I don't know. I haven't been by there. It was in existence for quite some time after the war. And all I remember, it was right near the high tension power lines.

MN: And then at Japanese school, did you go to every day or just Saturdays?

MO: Just Saturdays.

MN: And each Saturday before you started the classes, did you have to do something outside?

MO: Oh, yeah, you'd have to line up and bow to the emperor.

MN: And did the principal give you some sort of speech?

MO: Sometimes, sometimes. But we always had to stand at attention, kiotsuke, "stand at attention," rei, you had to bow, and then you'd go in the classroom and you had to sit up in the classroom. And when you recite it, you had to stand up. I still remember, he always made us hold the book out like this when you read from it, with straight arms. I always thought that was rather silly. [Laughs] But that's the way they did it. I was not a good student in Japanese school. It just didn't appeal to me. But the good part was hanging with all of your friends on Saturday.

MN: So if you got punished, how did they punish you?

MO: If you weren't paying attention, or doing something the teacher didn't like, all the Japanese books were soft covered, and he would roll it up and make a wand out of it, come and whack you across the head with it. It would hurt. I remember it hurt. And we had these twins in my class, one used to sit with me, and the other one, the "good" one, would sit up in front. [Laughs] To this day, it's beyond me. I tried to understand how twins worked, and I read books on twins, but when the bad kid got hit, the other one would cry. I never understood that. We must have been nine years old, eight years old at the time. But we were, I guess the best term is itazurabo. [Laughs] Yeah, I think that's what we were. Probably that's correct.

MN: Did you have to, like, learn the Kimigayo?

MO: Yeah, we had to sing that.

MN: On what occasion did you sing that?

MO: I don't know, maybe once or twice a year. But then I think back, it might have had to do with the emperor's birthday. It might have, but I'm not sure. I'm just not exactly sure. I think it... yeah, because even when I hear it today, it's very evocative. Beautiful piece of music, written by a Westerner.

MN: How did you feel about having to go to Japanese school when your other non-Nikkei friends didn't have to go?

MO: It was just part of our lives. We didn't like going, but it was part of our lives. You know, your father tells you, especially when the teacher picks you up, you can't ditch.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.