<Begin Segment 1>

SY: Okay, today we're talking to Mr. Yoneo Yamamoto. It's April 24, 2012, and we're at the Nishi Hongwanji, or Hongo Hongwanji, Buddhist Temple in Los Angeles. My name is Sharon Yamato, and Tani Ikeda is on camera. So if I might, Mr. Yamamoto, start with asking you a little bit about your parents, can you tell me -- well actually, let me, what is your full name?

YY: That's my full name.

SY: Full name, and you were born where and when?

YY: In Los Angeles, California, on March 26, 1923.

SY: 1923. And your parents, can you start with telling me their full names?

YY: My father's name was Shinjiro Yamamoto, and my mother's maiden name was Toshiye Takimoto.

SY: Toshiye Takemoto.

YY: Takimoto.

SY: Takimoto. And do you know where your father was originally from?

YY: From, I, from what I gathered, he was born in Shingu city in Wakayama-ken in Japan.

SY: Shingu city, and he, do you have any idea when he came to the United States?

YY: No, I don't know when he came.

SY: Do you know anything about his family in Wakayama?

YY: Well, as I understand, the family had a drugstore.

SY: A drugstore. I see. And so his father, then, probably...

YY: Well, I guess my father left because the drugstore went to the number one son and my father was number two.

SY: I see. And they were both trained in pharmacy?

YY: In pharmacy, yeah.

SY: So he was a pharmacist, learned his trade in Japan.

YY: Japan.

SY: I see, so he was educated in Japan.

YY: I guess so. I don't know. [Laughs]

SY: And his father was a pharmacist.

YY: Right, yeah.

SY: And do you know how many siblings he had?

YY: No, I think he just had the one brother.

SY: I see. So as far as you know, that was the reason he came to the United States. But you're not sure when that was.

YY: No, I don't.

SY: Now, do you know how he met your mother?

YY: That, I don't know either. [Laughs]

SY: And your mother was from?

YY: She was from, let's see, it was a little town, I guess they'd call it a village, Kinomoto in Mie-ken, which was right, right close to where my father's, Shingu was right across the river. And she went to school in Shingu, that's why.

SY: And do you know anything about her family?

YY: What, from what I remember -- I went there when I was about five years old. I think they wanted me to stay there, but I guess I must've put up a howl so they couldn't, couldn't keep me there. Anyway, what I remember was that there was a temple, and the grandfather was the caretaker of the temple. But that's about all I can remember.

SY: And your mother, you think that your mother met your father while she was in Japan?

YY: That, I don't know.

SY: Because the towns that they lived in were, were they close to one another?

YY: Oh yeah, it was just across the river. And I think they had a ferry that went across the river all the time.

SY: And did your mother have a big family?

YY: My mother was one of eight children, was four boys and four girls, from what she told me.

SY: And was she one of the younger ones, or do you know where she was in the family?

YY: I think, as far as the ladies, I mean the, yeah, the females went, I think she was about the third.

SY: The third from the youngest?

YY: Yeah, she was, from the top down, she was --

SY: So she was one of the older, older ones.

YY: Well, she was the third one, third of the four girls.

SY: I see. And did any of her other siblings come to the United States?

YY: No, they're all in Japan.

SY: They're all in Japan.

YY: Or now, I don't know about now, but... [laughs]

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

SY: So when you went back, when you were five you went back with your mother and your father?

YY: No, I went back with my mother.

SY: And your father was still here. And she wanted to stay there, or she just wanted to leave you there? Do you know?

YY: Well, she took me and my little, my younger sister, and we stayed there I think for about two months, but I guess she wanted to leave us there, but then we put up such a... she couldn't, she couldn't leave us there. So we came back.

SY: And your younger sister was how many years younger than you?

YY: I think she was a year, just a year younger.

SY: So how many in your family, how many brothers and sisters?

YY: I have two sisters.

SY: And their names?

YY: Well, my, the oldest one is Yae, and the second one is Ruth Machiko.

SY: So you and your next younger sister both just had Japanese names, but your youngest sister they gave an American name.

YY: Right.

SY: And so is that one of your earliest memories? Do you have earlier memories as a child, than going to Japan?

YY: No, not really.

SY: It was before you started grammar school.

YY: Grammar school, right.

SY: And so do you remember where you lived?

YY: I lived in Boyle Heights, but I don't know the streets. When I started going to school, then we moved to another house in Boyle Heights, and that was on Savannah Street, between First and Second.

SY: And that was the house that you lived in 'til when? 'Til the...

YY: 'Til I was going to high school, I think.

SY: So quite a few years you lived in that house on Savannah Street. So what is your earliest memory of going to school? Do you remember your first, your first day of going to school?

YY: Not really. It's been such a long time. [Laughs]

SY: What grammar school did you go to?

YY: First Street School.

SY: First Street School. And were there a lot of Japanese children that went there?

YY: I'm pretty sure, because there was quite a few Japanese families on Savannah Street.

SY: Do you remember your neighbors?

YY: I don't remember their names.

SY: But they were, were they Japanese families?

YY: Families, uh-huh.

SY: Primarily, in your neighborhood.

YY: Primarily. There was a couple of black families, I remember, and the Mexicans, there were a couple of Mexicans. But it was quite a few... I remember there was, I think it was called Matsuda Tofu, they manufactured tofu, and that family lived there too.

SY: And were there other kids your age that you remember that you grew up with?

YY: Well...

SY: You don't have to remember their names, but there, were there?

YY: Yeah, there was, there was, let's see, one, two, three, four, there must've been about eight families on that street.

SY: That street.

YY: That we used to, that were Japanese.

SY: And they were all, all the kids, were there kids in all those families?

YY: Yeah, I'm pretty sure there were.

SY: And you all went to First Street?

YY: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

SY: And at the time when you were going to grammar school, what was your father doing?

YY: He had a drugstore on First Street. It was 525 East First Street, I remember that. [Laughs]

SY: So it was sort of on the outskirts of Little Tokyo.

YY: It was right across the street from Rose Street. You know where Rose Street is? No? It's one block east of Alameda.

SY: So were there other shops around?

YY: Yeah, there were shops around. There was one big, I think it was called California Hardware, was a big building that took the whole block from Alameda to Rose Street, right across the street from us. I remember that.

SY: And your father, do you think he leased this property to have his drugstore?

YY: Yeah.

SY: Do you remember what the drugstore was like? Was it small?

YY: It was big enough to have a soda fountain, I remember. It was pretty good size, I think, for a one man store.

SY: He had, do you, did your mother help him, help out in the store?

YY: Yeah, at times.

SY: But mostly he ran it by himself. And did he have other things, other than pharmacy, medicine?

YY: He had a, he had a liquor license, I remember.

SY: Was it, I wonder if it was difficult to get a liquor license back then.

YY: I don't know. [Laughs]

SY: So he sold liquor in the drugstore too.

YY: Yeah.

SY: And also had a soda fountain. Was it fairly busy? Do you remember?

YY: Well, as far as I can remember, it wasn't that busy.

SY: Mostly Japanese clientele?

YY: No, not really, because there was that soap company, I can't remember the name of it, White King Soap, right next to, maybe about three or four doors away. It was a parking lot and then the big manufacturing building, and there's a lot of people that used to come that were working there, on their way to work or on their way back from work.

SY: Do you remember where Little Tokyo, what the, was it sort of outside of the Little Tokyo main area? Or was it part of Little Tokyo?

YY: Well, 'cause the, most of the, from Alameda to where the parking lot to the White King Soap Company were all Japanese stores.

SY: So it probably was a part of the, 'cause Little Tokyo was bigger than it, than...

YY: It was before, yeah. Then across the street there was a Japanese store, plus a couple of hotels, Japanese hotels.

SY: So he had both Japanese clients and then the people that worked in that area come to, to... and ate at the soda fountain?

YY: Well, we only had soda and ice cream.

SY: That's nice. And did you, you were pretty young, so you probably never helped out?

YY: When I was, when I was going to high school I used to help out in the soda fountain.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

SY: And so when you, you went to First Street, and then after that you went to junior high school where?

YY: Hollenbeck Junior High School.

SY: Hollenbeck Junior High School. And there were probably, were there very many Asians?

YY: Oh yeah, there was quite a few. There were a lot of Japanese in Boyle Heights at that time.

SY: And do you remember what you did as a young kid, what your, did you, were you involved in things other than school? Did you study a lot?

YY: [Laughs] I don't know about studying, but we, I know that I used to go to, we would walk to school -- it was, it must've been about five or six blocks, maybe more -- and every morning, I'd stop at my friend's house and we'd go to school together. We did that, junior high school and high school.

SY: And then, was there a recreational area that you used?

YY: Yeah, there was, at the end of the block it was the Evergreen Playground, so we used to spend a lot of time there. And they had, summertime, they had a swimming pool so we spent time in the pool.

SY: And that was mainly, again, Japanese kids? Or was it kids from the neighborhood, all...

YY: Yeah, there was all different, Mexicans, there was black families there, and Japanese.

SY: Is that playground, is it where Evergreen Cemetery is now? Or is it --

YY: No.

SY: No, it's different.

YY: Evergreen Cemetery's on First Street and this was on, between Second and Fourth, Fourth Street.

SY: I see. And were you, did your parents, were you involved in church activities? Did you go to a...

YY: I started to, but I didn't end up that way. [Laughs] 'Cause at, the Evergreen Baptist Church was right there, not a block and a half away.

SY: And they were, were they originally, in Japan were they, did they, were they Buddhist?

YY: They were Buddhist.

SY: But when they came here they wanted, they wanted you to go to the Baptist church? Is that how it happened?

YY: That, I don't know. I don't know if they wanted me to go, but I know that I went for a few years.

SY: And did you study Japanese when you got here?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So that was another thing you did. Where was that?

YY: Well, I went to Chuo Gakkuen, which was on Saratoga Street, which was maybe about three or four blocks away, not too far. And I went to Japanese school even while I was going to high school.

SY: So that was several years?

YY: Well, I went when I was in grammar school, then junior high and high school.

SY: How many days a week was that?

YY: Every day after, after school.

SY: So you would walk from school to Japanese school? [YY nods] And it was strictly Japanese lessons?

YY: Yeah.

SY: So did they have other activities at the Japanese school?

YY: Well, I can't remember.

SY: Did they have anything like, was it, did they have anything like Boy Scouts or social, like picnics?

YY: No. But then they, I remember they started a judo over there. But that was much later, when I was about a senior in high school I think they started it.

SY: So when you were going it was pretty straight Japanese school.

YY: Right.

SY: And so you learned, now, did you converse with your parents in Japanese at home?

YY: Yes.

SY: Strictly in Japanese?

YY: Japanese, uh-huh.

SY: So you, your Japanese was probably pretty good, or is pretty good.

YY: Well, yeah, but see, my parents, they passed away about thirty years ago and you don't speak Japanese for thirty years you don't remember a lot of things. [Laughs] You forget. And at my age too, you keep forgetting things. If you don't practice you don't, you can't remember.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

SY: So do you remember talking to your parents very much? Were they very conversant with you? Did they, did you, what, maybe you could just sort of describe what your mother and father were like. What was your father like?

YY: Well, he didn't talk too much to me. [Laughs] 'Cause he used to work from nine in the morning, he would leave around nine in the morning and then he'd come home nine o'clock at night. No, he closed at nine at night. And he worked every day except Christmas, New Year's, Thanksgiving, and Fourth of July. Those were the four days he took off.

SY: Wow.

YY: So I didn't see too much of my father.

SY: And how about your mother, was she --

YY: Well, yeah, when we were at home I would go, go to school and don't come back for a while, so I didn't talk too much to her either.

SY: Did she work when you were young?

YY: No.

SY: She stayed home. Was she, do you think she was closer to your sisters?

YY: Probably. Especially my, the youngest one, when she was born.

SY: 'Cause the youngest one, what's the age difference between you?

YY: Yeah, there's, I think she was eleven years younger than I was.

SY: So she was born right, well no, not right before the war, but she was born several --

YY: Do you remember the quintuplets in Canada?

SY: I do.

YY: Well, she was born the same year they were born. [Laughs]

SY: That was in the...

YY: I think it was '34.

SY: '34, 1934. So that's how you remember her.

YY: Right. [Laughs]

SY: That's, so that's a big age gap.

YY: Right.

SY: So you remember her, always having a baby around when you were growing up.

YY: Right.

SY: And your mother having to take care of her.

YY: Right.

SY: So when you, did you, were you close to your sisters, to your, the one that was younger than you, just --

YY: Not that much 'cause she had her friends and I had my friends.

SY: But you went to the same schools.

YY: Schools, uh-huh.

SY: But you did activities separately? Like you walked to school separately?

YY: Right.

SY: And went to Japanese school separately?

YY: Uh-huh. We weren't in the same class.

SY: And your mother would always be home when you got home.

YY: Right.

SY: And then she would cook dinner?

YY: She was the one that would drive.

SY: So you had a car?

YY: Yeah, and then she would drive, she would take, she would cook supper and she would, we would get in the car and take it to my father at the store. Then she would drive him back home at nine o'clock.

SY: So she would drop him off in the morning?

YY: No, he'd take the streetcar in the morning, 'cause the streetcar was close by.

SY: But it was dark at night, so she picked him up.

YY: Yeah.

SY: And you would go with her every night to pick him up?

YY: No, not every night, but I used to go most of the nights.

SY: So you had a pretty, your day was pretty scheduled.

YY: Right. Yeah.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

SY: And you remember when you were in, so when you graduated from junior high school you went to what high school now?

YY: Roosevelt.

SY: Roosevelt. And that, do you remember having certain interests when you were in high school?

YY: Well, I went out for the teams, but we were, like most of the athletics, things were divided into varsity, B, C, and D, and we were, we were always in the C and D classes. [Laughs] I know I played basketball and ran track in high school.

SY: Was that, did you enjoy the sports?

YY: Yeah. We always did something, anyway. We'd go to the playground and play basketball or play paddle tennis, things like that.

SY: This was a different area, recreational area?

YY: Well no, at Evergreen Playground.

SY: Still Evergreen Playground. And so everybody kind of hung out there after school or after...

YY: Well, a lot of people did, so... we were, I was only half a block away, so it was real close for me. In summertime the pool was open, so we'd go to the pool.

SY: So this, the kids that you grew up with in that Boyle Heights area, did you stay in touch with them when you became an adult?

YY: No, not too much, because we, when we moved in '39 to Terminal Island, well, I made different friends.

SY: You lost touch.

YY: We lost touch with them.

SY: So talk about that move. Why did you decide, why did your father decide, and mother decide, to move?

YY: I don't know, actually, but I always figured that they told him that he could make more money over at the other place. And so I was, it was kind of a shock to me when we, he said we were gonna move.

SY: Was it hard for you?

YY: No, it wasn't hard.

SY: 'Cause you were in high school, and then they were just leasing their house? Do you know if they were --

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So they just got rid of the house.

YY: Right.

SY: And where, where did they end up...

YY: We moved to Terminal Island, and my father started a drugstore there. Well, he took over a drugstore that was, it used, a place where it used to be a drugstore. And he started that 1939.

SY: So what happened to his drugstore on First Street?

YY: Well, I don't know what happened to it. I never went back. Now it's demolished, the building's gone.

SY: But he just left and he managed to find another place, and then do you remember what time of the year that was that you moved?

YY: No. All I know is it was 1939.

SY: And you were still in what, when...

YY: I was still in high school.

SY: You were what year in high school?

YY: A senior, I'm a senior in high school.

SY: So you had to change high schools?

YY: Well, no. I stayed through with some friends, and I just had to go one semester over there.

SY: So you stayed in Boyle Heights and your parents --

YY: For one semester.

SY: -- and your parents moved with your two sisters.

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And so what was that like, living by yourself?

YY: I can't remember. [Laughs] I don't even remember what house we were in, I was, we were, I was living in.

SY: 'Cause it was with a family, but you had, but there was someone your age living in the same family.

YY: Right.

SY: So you just stayed and shared a bedroom?

YY: I think so. Maybe I had one for myself. I can't remember.

SY: Can't remember. But so, when your parents, that was something that they decided, or did you ask to stay?

YY: No, I'm pretty sure that I would have asked. 'Cause I was graduating and it was, I was a winter graduate, so end of '39 was graduation. So all I had to do was just stay one semester.

SY: So you ended up going through the whole graduation ceremony after high school, and you remember what that was like? Was it a big graduation?

YY: I think there was about five hundred graduates. But I remember the auditorium, but I don't remember anything else.

SY: And your parents came to your graduation?

YY: That, I don't remember. [Laughs]

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

SY: So did you know when you graduated what your next, what you were gonna do next?

YY: No. My father told me to go to pharmacy school. But I thought maybe I would save more money by going to junior college and take all the necessary things that wasn't involved in pharmacy, so I spent a year at Compton College, then I went, I just went to USC for about a year in the pharmacy. No, not even a year, I just went a semester 'cause the war broke out in 1942, '41, 1941.

SY: So when you graduated from high school, then you moved back with your parents to Terminal Island, and then you commuted from Terminal Island to Compton College? Is that how you did it?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And that, were, was that common for kids your age to be going to school on the bus?

YY: No, I had a car, so I don't know how the other kids went to school. [Laughs]

SY: You actually had your own car, not the family car?

YY: Well, nobody used it because my mother hadn't had, didn't have much places to go to anyway, so I would use the car all the time. So I used the car to go to school and back.

SY: So can you describe what Terminal Island was, where, how it was situated, where it was exactly in Los Angeles?

YY: It's right across the harbor from San Pedro, and it's right next to Long Beach, and there was a beach they used to call Brighton Beach where everybody, Japanese used to go there all the time. And Terminal Island, the Fish Harbor area was all Japanese. I don't know how many families there were, but it was mostly all Japanese. Maybe there was one or two other different minorities there, but it was all Japanese.

SY: And that was someplace that people originally settled when they came from Japan, most of the people? Or did they move there after they came?

YY: That, I don't know. They had a pretty good, pretty good sized shopping area called Tuna Street, but, and we were on Seaside, so we were a little further away from Tuna Street.

SY: So where, where exactly did you live and where exactly was your father's pharmacy?

YY: Our store was on Seaside, and what was the other street? Anyway, address was (102 Terminal Way), I think it was. 'Cause we were, and we lived up above the store. We had...

SY: It was the same building. And was it right on the water or right across from the water?

YY: No, it was about a block away.

SY: A block away. And were there other homes around you, or was it all businesses?

YY: Mostly it was all business. There was homes -- no, there were homes on Seaside, come to think of it.

SY: And how did you actually get from San Pedro to Terminal Island?

YY: Terminal Island, well, they had a ferry, and it must've went pretty frequently. I used to go there on Sundays to pick up the newspaper and bring it to the store to sell, the Sunday paper.

SY: You had to go on the ferry and go across?

YY: Across, uh-huh. And the kids went to San Pedro High School, like my sister was going to San Pedro High. They had to take the ferry across every morning and afternoon when they're coming home, they take the ferry.

SY: And you just, it was like a commuter thing where you have to pay and then take the ferry every day?

YY: I'm pretty sure you had to pay, but I don't know how much it was. I guess it wasn't too expensive.

SY: How about when you drove to school? How did you get there in your car?

YY: Let's see, I would... I'm trying to think. There's a, there was a road out on Terminal Island, instead of going to San Pedro, the other way out, so I'm trying to think how it was. I can't even remember that. [Laughs]

SY: But there was definitely a way to get there in a car without having to take the ferry.

YY: Uh-huh. 'Cause the people used to come from the L.A. area into, going to Brighton Beach right there, and I know they didn't go across the ferry.

SY: So did you end up going back and forth, other than going to school, often? Or did you stay pretty much on Terminal Island when you lived there?

YY: I spent quite a few hours away because I had friends that I'd meet. And when I went to Japanese school it was in a place called Keystone, Keystone Japanese School. Every Saturday I would go there for Japanese school, so I made a lot of friends there.

SY: And where was that?

YY: Keystone is now called Carson.

SY: So it was a short drive from Terminal Island.

YY: Terminal Island.

SY: And why did they have a Japanese school there? Was it...

YY: Well, I guess they had a lot of Japanese farmers around there, and they all come from different areas I guess.

SY: So it was a fairly large Japanese school?

YY: Well, I wouldn't say it was large, but there was quite a few students there.

SY: And did other kids from Terminal Island go there? Or just --

YY: No, Terminal Island, they had their own school.

SY: And why did you decide to go to Keystone?

YY: Well, because I met, when I started going to the Compton JC I made friends there and they went to Keystone.

SY: So the Japanese schools, then, were pretty advanced by this time, because you had been... so did you constantly move up a grade in Japanese school?

YY: Yeah.

SY: Same as in regular school.

YY: Right.

SY: And did they have other activities at Keystone?

YY: No, not really. [Laughs]

SY: And what kind of courses did you take at junior college?

YY: Well, things like English, and I remember taking a chemistry class, and mathematics, I took geometry, solid, I remember taking solid geometry, JC.

SY: So your father really, was it your choice to go, to learn to become a pharmacist?

YY: No, it was my father's choice.

SY: That was his ambition for you. And how about your sisters, did he ask them to...

YY: No. My youngest sister became a teacher, but my oldest sister, I don't know, I don't know how long she went to school.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

SY: So I kind of would like to get a sense of Terminal Island back then, and your father's pharmacy and what kind of business he had, so can you describe his store and what that was like, who came?

YY: Well, it was about half the size of the store we had in Los Angeles, and he still had his liquor license so he was able to sell liquor. And that was the big thing over there because when the longshoremen used to come to work at night they would always stop at the store and buy something to, they always stopped and buy something. But I don't know how the drug business went because most of the time I wasn't there.

SY: So he, it was, it was pretty small, then. It was a tinier place.

YY: Right.

SY: And did he sell other things besides liquor?

YY: Yeah, he sold the newspaper and magazines and things like that.

SY: So his clientele was a lot of the people who worked there, and then...

YY: Yeah, well, the people that come out, the workers that come off of the ships that come, and the longshoremen that goes, work on the ships.

SY: So how was, how busy was it?

YY: It was busy at night. I remember 'cause I used to help at night.

SY: And they would come in and buy, so he sold all different kinds of liquor?

YY: Right.

SY: And then his, how about the Japanese patrons, were there very many of those?

YY: There was a few, but there were more others than Japanese, 'cause there were two other drugstores on the island. There was one on Tuna Street and that was the closer, that was just inside the Japanese population there.

SY: So they mostly went there. And did he have relationships with the doctors to get the drugs prescribed?

YY: I don't know how many doctors there were on the island. I know there was a dentist, but I can't remember any doctors.

SY: So there was no, like, hospital care nearby. The closest --

YY: Well, you go across the street, I mean across the bay to San Pedro.

SY: That was the closest hospital.

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So when he decided to move there, he must've known that that was the situation, right, mostly?

YY: Yeah, I guess they had to tell him what it, what was better than having a store on First Street.

SY: And how many, can you sort of give us a sense of how many Japanese Americans were in that area?

YY: I don't know, but there was quite a few.

SY: And did you make friends? Did your parents make friends with a lot of families in the area?

YY: I think my father knew quite a few people there before he went, 'cause there were a lot of people from Wakayama living in Terminal Island.

SY: So you think that might have been the connection, that that's why they went to Terminal Island?

YY: That, I don't know, but... and I don't know who told him about Terminal Island, but all I know is that he said we're gonna move. [Laughs]

SY: And they were, would you say most of them were fishermen that lived there, most of the Japanese Americans?

YY: Yeah, and the ladies were cannery workers.

SY: The wives. So they might have, is Wakayama, like, a seaport? Is that...

YY: Well, it's, it's right on the ocean, so, oceanside.

SY: So do you know what kinds of fish they caught?

YY: I know that they went to catch tuna, and I don't know what other ones they, I know they used to come back with a lot of squids. My father's friends would bring him buckets of squids when they came in. Mainly they used that for fishing.

SY: They had mostly small fishing boats, then. And were they --

YY: Well, the ones that went down south, they went out into the Mexico area for tuna. They were much larger boats. They would be away for couple of weeks and come back.

SY: So were there many people your age or your sister's age that lived on the island back then?

YY: I'm pretty sure. I didn't make too many friends because I was, it was only a little over two years that I was there.

SY: And you were leaving every day to go to school. Did your sister, do you know if your sisters...

YY: Probably, 'cause she went to San Pedro High School, so made a lot of friends at school there.

SY: Was San Pedro High School, was it a lot of Japanese Americans there during that time?

YY: All the Japanese from Terminal Island went there, so I guess so.

SY: So you have no sense of how many families were there.

YY: No, I'd want to guess ten thousand, but that's not it. It was maybe a little over five thousand.

SY: So quite a few. It was a big, big community. More, did it feel like more Japanese than Boyle Heights or about the same?

YY: Yeah, there was more Japanese there.

SY: In Terminal Island.

YY: Yeah.

SY: So it was quite a big community. And how many of other nationalities? Do you remember who lived there?

YY: I don't know, there was some white people there, but not too many. And then further away from the fish harbor, there were some people living there too.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

SY: So how, do you remember what happened when, do you remember when Pearl Harbor happened?

YY: Well, yeah, sort of.

SY: You remember where you were when it happened?

YY: I think I was ready to go across the, across the ferry to get the newspapers for the store. I don't know if I went and got 'em or not, 'cause I think that was Sunday too, wasn't it, Pearl Harbor?

SY: Yeah. So the newspapers would've had news of that, that happening? Or maybe it wasn't quite --

YY: I don't think, I don't think so.

SY: Do you remember how you heard? Was it on the radio?

YY: Somebody came to tell us, I remember.

SY: You were still at home. So do you remember what your parents' reaction was?

YY: They, I didn't, I don't know. I can't remember.

SY: Were they, you don't remember if they were upset?

YY: I don't remember. But I know afterwards, when they, we got the forty-eight hours, they were, everything was all hectic and you were wondering what to do, how to do it, things like that.

SY: So how, you got notice that you had forty-eight hours to pack, and you had, you had to just get off the island.

YY: Right.

SY: Do you remember how that notice came? Was it on a...

YY: I think somebody came down to tell us, somebody from the navy. 'Cause I think it's the navy that made us leave, Because it was, part of it was a naval base thing.

SY: On Terminal Island, right on the shore there?

YY: Uh-huh. So that's when we had to leave.

SY: And your, and everybody was, I mean, your, what... was there talk among other, all the families there?

YY: Well, I think most of the families were trying to figure out how to get everything out of there, out of Terminal Island. But we were fortunate that one of the friends came and, with a truck for us, so we were able to take some of the stuff out, but we didn't get everything out.

SY: And did you have a special sale?

YY: Well, we didn't have a sale, but then people were coming in from all over trying to buy things real cheap. So I know we had a piano, I think, but I don't know how much we got for it. We were able to sell that, I remember.

SY: Because you had all your, not only the store things but you had all your household.

YY: Household things.

SY: So you were able to pack some of it on this friend's truck. Do you remember what you took, what your parents took? Furniture?

YY: I'm pretty sure we took a bed and stuff like that, but other than, I can't remember.

SY: And then how about the store things?

YY: Well, my father had a friend that came and took most of the things away, and the liquor, I think somebody else came and bought all that stuff. But I'm pretty sure that they got a good bargain. [Laughs]

SY: And so that was something that you actually helped with? Did you have to pack and do that?

YY: Well, I was, I don't know what I was doing. I can't remember.

SY: And your, you don't remember, do you remember your parents' reaction, just, just trying to get everything packed?

YY: No, my father wasn't, he was pretty cool about it. But my mother was kind of anxious. She was running around all over.

SY: Trying to... yeah, forty-eight hours is really, really...

YY: Yes, especially if you had a store. [Laughs]

SY: And they actually had to find a place to go to, right?

YY: Right.

SY: So how did, how did that happen? You remember?

YY: Well, the principal at the Japanese school, he lived in Boyle Heights and he said he had a big house, and he said we could go and live with him, so that's where we went. Then the first chance that we could move, well, we were gonna move, but then the Terminal Island group, they were told that they could go into Manzanar on April, I think it was April 2nd or April 3rd or something like that. So we went with the Terminal Island group to Manzanar.

SY: And when was this that you left Terminal Island? Do you remember what month that was?

YY: It was in February, but I can't remember the date.

SY: And did you have, do you know, I guess your parents had no idea that this was gonna happen?

YY: No.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

SY: Was there talk after Pearl Harbor, do you think, that everybody had to move?

YY: No, I don't know. All I remember is they came and told us we had to move.

SY: And the Japanese school was the one in Boyle Heights that, this was the principal?

YY: No, the one in Keystone where we were going.

SY: So that was lucky that you had somebody, because everybody at Terminal Island had to find a place.

YY: To go to.

SY: To go to, so most, did most people go to Boyle Heights? Do you know?

YY: No, I don't know. I think a lot of them, the Japanese schools, they had buildings there, so they were able to take people. But I'm not sure.

SY: They, now, didn't they come and arrest a lot of men at Terminal Island first, before that happened?

YY: Right.

SY: Do you remember that, what that was like or how that happened?

YY: I just heard about it, but I don't know.

SY: People were talking about it. And how about your father? He was never --

YY: No.

SY: -- never worried about it? Was your mother worried?

YY: No, I don't think so. I didn't think they, I don't think they felt that my father would be taken.

SY: And the ones who were taken, did anybody talk about where they were being taken? Nobody knew?

YY: Yeah, I don't think they knew. They were just taken away.

SY: And that happened pretty quick after Pearl Harbor.

YY: Right.

SY: So there were still quite a few families, though, that were intact.

YY: Right.

SY: And then how did, what happened to your car? Did you keep your car when you went to Boyle Heights?

YY: Yeah, I had it there. But then we were able to sell it before we went into camp. 'Cause we weren't able to go anyplace anymore after, and they put a...

SY: Curfew.

YY: Yeah.

SY: The curfew was at night, right?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So did you stop going to school? And you were, at the time --

YY: Yeah, I did, I did. Yeah, I think I, after, when I finished school at, in January, I think I didn't go back to school.

SY: And that was January, you had been one semester at USC. And was that, like, the official pharmacy school? Or was it just --

YY: It was the pharmacy school.

SY: So how did you get into the pharmacy school from Compton?

YY: I just applied for the school and I got in.

SY: You had to have a certain grade point average?

YY: Not that I know of. [Laughs]

SY: It wasn't that hard to get into SC?

YY: No, I just sent my transcript in there and they said I could come.

SY: And you remember being one of the few Japanese in this pharmacy school? Or were there quite a few?

YY: Maybe there was about five or six of us.

SY: And so how many years was pharmacy school?

YY: It was a four-year course.

SY: And you had just one semester. And so when you stopped going to pharmacy school you just, so between that time when you had to go to Boyle Heights and Manzanar, you were just staying home or not doing much?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: Do you remember what you did during that time?

YY: No, I don't.

SY: Did you hang out with your friends?

YY: No, I don't think so.

SY: Everybody was pretty upset?

YY: After war, yeah, I'm pretty sure they were.

SY: Between the time that you had to move and take all your things.

YY: Right, yeah.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

SY: So you do remember packing up to go to Manzanar, you remember packing up again?

YY: What we did was, I remember we had a big, big trunk, and we put that in storage.

SY: You mean, storage where? Was it in...

YY: It was a commercial, commercial storage. We paid to keep it there. And we were able to, after about a year in camp we were able to get the, get 'em to deliver that to Manzanar. So we were fortunate that we did that because a lot of the stuff that we needed was in the trunk. But other than that, I remember we just had to carry whatever we could to go to camp.

SY: But you had to be able to pay for the storage space.

YY: Right.

SY: Was it a big trunk?

YY: Yeah, it was a trunk.

SY: So it was a big trunk and you put everything inside it.

YY: Right.

SY: So it must've been pretty, you remember what it was that you put in there, that you got later when you were in Manzanar?

YY: Well, I remember we had some tools in there, that we put in.

SY: Tools like for...

YY: You know, like a hammer and saw and things like that.

SY: Nothing to do with the pharmacy.

YY: No. No.

SY: But you had no furniture, right?

YY: No.

SY: Nothing, nothing, no big items.

YY: No.

SY: Just smaller things.

YY: All our bedding and stuff like that, we got rid of I guess.

SY: And how about personal things, like photos and photo albums?

YY: I think that was in the trunk.

SY: You did save those. Your mother and father saved those.

YY: Yeah.

SY: But you don't remember anything else that you saved?

YY: No.

SY: And the rest of the things, do you think, you sold off?

YY: Either that or they took it, somebody took it. [Laughs]

SY: Because when you were in, you knew when you were in Boyle Heights you had a certain number of days to get ready to go to Manzanar?

YY: No. We didn't know, it was, I don't know how much, how much time we had, but I know that we didn't, we knew that, we didn't know when we were gonna leave. Then we got a notice saying that people that went, that were at Terminal Island would be able to go to Manzanar if they wanted to go.

SY: And had other people that you knew or your family knew, had they already left to go to Manzanar? Or were you the first ones?

YY: No.

SY: You were the first ones.

YY: We were, we were, yeah, one of the first ones. I think people from Bainbridge were there before us. And I don't know, 'cause we were in 9, Blocks 9 and 10, and so the other ones were filled up before we got there.

SY: From one to nine, you mean?

YY: Uh-huh.

[Interruption]

SY: -- your, from Boyle Heights to Manzanar, did you stop?

YY: We went, we went to, it was, let's see, we went to a train station and we, there were buses waiting for us to take, they took us to Manzanar.

SY: And you remember if it was Union Station, or was it a smaller train station?

YY: Well, that station isn't there anymore. They changed it.

SY: Was it East, was it kind of East L.A.?

YY: It was close to the First Street Bridge, right around, right here.

SY: So right outside of Little Tokyo, or part of Little Tokyo at the time.

YY: Yeah.

SY: And they had buses enough for the Terminal Island people? It was all Terminal Island people?

YY: Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

SY: And you, do you remember how many buses there were?

YY: No, I don't remember. There was more than one, I know, but I can't remember how much, how many there were. [Laughs]

SY: So you went directly to Manzanar. You didn't go to Santa Anita.

YY: No.

SY: And the people after you, are those the ones who went to Santa Anita? Do you know? Did you talk to people about how they got to Manzanar?

YY: Well, I talked to people that were living close to where I was living in Boyle Heights, and then they went to Santa Anita, and then from there they went to Heart Mountain. So I don't know, I think the people that went to Manzanar just went directly there.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

SY: So when you got to Manzanar, were all the barracks already completed?

YY: I don't think so. I think the ones way at the end, the ones in the thirties, I think they were still being built.

SY: Do you remember that ride from, on the bus, how long it took?

YY: No, I don't remember. I don't remember where we were or anything. [Laughs]

SY: But when you got, so you don't remember when you got there, what it, how, what the, Manzanar looked like? Whether it was cold, hot, do you remember what the weather was?

YY: It was in April, so it wasn't too bad, I guess. But I remember when we got there, all these people were standing there outside looking to see who's coming in. They're all curious to see who's coming.

SY: Nobody that you knew, though, was already there?

YY: I knew a couple of people that were there, but other than that, I didn't know anybody else.

SY: So there were already Terminal Island people there when you got there.

YY: No, these, these are people that were, well, I went to Japanese school with in Keystone.

SY: And so there were more than Bainbridge people there.

YY: Well, I think these, these were the volunteers that went first, that went to help build the place.

SY: And they were Japanese Americans that went first. And so when you arrived it was still not very many people there.

YY: No.

SY: Like the blocks, so just up to blocks nine and ten were filled, and then the rest were empty still?

YY: Empty.

SY: So how many, do you remember how long it was before...

YY: They were coming in every day, I think.

SY: So did you go and check out and see who was coming too?

YY: I did a couple of times, but after that, no.

SY: So where was, where were Blocks 9 and 10 in reference to the whole camp?

YY: Well, let's see...

SY: Was it near --

YY: It'd be 11 and, let's see, I think, I think it was one to 6 and then 7 through 12. So just about in the middle, I guess.

SY: It was, it was, so...

YY: On the first two, anyway.

SY: So was it, when you went through the guard gate, the main gate, it was toward the middle?

YY: Well, let's see, Block 12... it was, there was, there was, let's see, the one block that went all the way up, and then the next row of blocks. I'm trying to think where the fire area, trying to remember.

SY: Hard to remember.

YY: Yeah.

SY: So when you first got there, when you first got there, was there, were there things for you to do when you first got there? What did you do during the day? How did you spend your days?

YY: I think we were trying to fix the, fix our place up. [Laughs]

SY: So you remember what your, what unit were you in?

YY: Let's see, we were 10-4-1, so we were in Block 10, and it was the fourth barrack, and we were on the end, we're number one.

SY: And it was, that's where the family, so you had five people in your unit?

YY: Yeah.

SY: So just five beds in one unit? Or did you --

YY: Yes, this was all, it was all in one unit. I remember putting up cloth between us, and that's about it I could remember.

SY: So when you first arrived and you found your unit, it was just an empty, just five beds and that's it? Do you remember what else was there?

YY: Just the stove. It was an oil burner. The, they had a person that came around every night and, every day I guess, and filled up the burner, the oil, with oil.

SY: So it was still cold at night when you got there. Really cold? Or just...

YY: No, it wasn't, I don't think so. I don't think it was really cold.

SY: Windy, though. Was it windy?

YY: Yeah.

SY: So a lot of dust?

YY: Quite a bit of dust. Then later on they were able to bring in boards to fill up the, so that we'd have thing closed so we wouldn't get any dust.

SY: So when you first got there it, the dust would come through?

YY: It was, it would dust.

SY: Well, it came through the walls or from the floor?

YY: Yeah, from the wall.

SY: From the wall, not so much from the floor. And your...

YY: Then later on they gave us, they came in and put flooring down so that we wouldn't get anything from the bottom.

SY: They, it was actually wood flooring that they laid over the...

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So it was planks when you got there, right? Everything was kind of planks, and then they laid a flooring over that?

YY: Right. They put linoleum over it.

SY: Linoleum. And how, you know how long they, it took before they did that?

YY: It was a long time. [Laughs]

SY: It was really toward the middle part of...

YY: Middle, yeah. Yeah, before that.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

SY: So your father and mother, do you remember what they did when you first got there?

YY: No.

SY: Your sisters were going to school, though, so did they have school right away?

YY: Yeah.

SY: But it took a while for everybody to get there, right?

YY: Right. I don't know, I don't know if the school was open or not when we got there.

SY: So you were, since you were among the first people to be there, they, did they have activities? Or do you remember that period when nobody else, when people hadn't gotten there first?

YY: No. No, I don't remember. I can't remember.

SY: You don't remember what you did at night?

YY: No.

SY: Did you have, do you remember who was living next door to you?

YY: No.

SY: No other young people your age?

YY: No. But I knew the two volunteers that came, and then they were living in a bachelor's place, so I remember going over there to talk to them. But other than that, I can't remember.

SY: They were the ones that were already there.

YY: Uh-huh. They were the ones that volunteered to go and help build up Manzanar.

SY: Do you remember what, did they have just one or two mess halls then, when you first got there, operating?

YY: I don't know. I just know, I just knew that 9 and 10, they both had mess halls.

SY: So you had your own in your, where you were. So was it, so you remember anything about the food?

YY: I think at first we were just getting canned food. But I know, I know they were complaining about the food at first, but afterwards, I think it got better.

SY: So did you feel like they were just, did it feel like they were getting ready for everybody else to come? Or do you, did it even occur to you that...

YY: Well, I'm pretty sure they were waiting, 'cause, for the other people to come in, because they were coming in all the time, the place was filling up real fast.

SY: And your parents, they were, were they busy during the day? Do you remember what they were doing?

YY: I don't know what they did.

SY: But while you were, and your sisters, your youngest sister, how old, she was about ten or eleven?

YY: No, she was...

SY: She was born in '34, so she was pretty young.

YY: I think, yeah, 'cause we were there in '42.

SY: So she was, so I assume that she was not able to go to school 'til the next semester, the next fall.

YY: Well, I don't know when she started, but I know she had to go to school. [Laughs]

SY: Eventually.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

SY: So how did you, I know you started working. Do you remember when you actually started your first job there?

YY: No. Well, the only thing I can remember is that I got a job driving a panel truck. And then they wanted somebody to go in to clean the screens on the reservoir, so we started doing that. And I had two other persons that, we went together, three of us would go, and we'd go twenty-four hours, then they'd give us three days off. But I didn't last very long.

SY: So there are three of you, and you were the driver of the panel truck?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And the truck, so you, the other two would come, and then would you stay up for twenty-four hours, all three of you?

YY: No, we'd take turns. [Laughs]

SY: Do you know why they did it that way?

YY: I don't know.

SY: Because you just had to keep it clean constantly, the filters?

YY: Yeah.

SY: So that, what did that involve?

YY: Well, we just, we just took down the screens at the end there and cleaned that, leaves and stuff like that.

SY: So you had to take them down, clean them and then put them back, and then keep doing that over and over? Or were there quite a few? How many filters were there?

YY: No, it took a while before they would really get bad, so we just cleaned it off.

SY: And how many were there?

YY: I can't remember.

SY: Like roughly. Were there a lot?

YY: Yeah, there was quite a few, 'cause it was a pretty good size reservoir.

SY: So the water was coming through the reservoir and the leaves would block off the water.

YY: See, it's all creek water, it's coming down the creek and it goes into the reservoir.

SY: And where, where exactly was this, this reservoir?

YY: Well, I can't remember the name of the creek, but it was on the mountain side of the camp.

SY: So when you drove, you had to drive out the front gate?

YY: No, back, through the back.

SY: So there was a guard gate that you had to go through to go to the reservoir. And all you needed was, did you have to show any kind of special...

YY: No, not that I remember.

SY: And how far did you have to drive, how many minutes? Was it like half an hour, twenty minutes?

YY: No, it was, it was close.

SY: So where was the truck parked when you would go, you had to go to a certain place?

YY: Well, right by the, right by, park it right by the reservoir.

SY: And then you would just all get out and clean the screens and then get back in?

YY: Right. We'd take turns doing that, and then somebody would take a walk up the creek and see, see if they could get any trout. [Laughs]

SY: So you brought equipment to fish?

YY: No, I didn't have anything. I remember we tried to put rocks and stop the water, see if you could make a little dam there for it, but we never did get anything. [Laughs]

SY: Could you see the fish, though? Were they, were there a lot of fish?

YY: If I remember correctly, yeah. The further you went up there, up the creek, there were more fish.

SY: So the reservoir, the things that you were cleaning were in one part of this creek?

YY: Well, it was at the end where it went into the reservoir.

SY: Yeah, so you could go above it.

YY: Yeah, we could walk all the way up.

SY: Walk up and see, and it was where, was that usually where people would go fishing?

YY: I think they went further up north, I mean further toward the mountain. I think there, as you go further up, there were more places where you could fish. 'Cause by the time you're coming downhill, I think the creek got smaller and smaller.

SY: And was it, I mean, did you think twice about the fact that you were going outside of the, of the area, fenced area? Or did, I mean, did that, was that something that wasn't...

YY: No, we never, I never did think about it.

SY: 'Cause you, did you, you didn't need any kind of special permission?

YY: No, not that I remember. We just went out.

SY: And how did they hire you to do this?

YY: That, I can't remember.

SY: You might have volunteered?

YY: Might've, but I can't remember.

SY: Can't remember how that you got that job. Remember how much you got paid?

YY: We were getting sixteen dollars, I think sixteen dollars a month.

SY: So it was kind of the middle, middle pay. And did you know the two other people that you were working with?

YY: Yeah. They were from West L.A. and one had just got, graduated from UCLA in chemistry, I think it was.

SY: So they were your age or a little older. And they, and you stayed with them the whole time that you worked this shift or whatever?

YY: Yeah, the three of us. We took turns sleeping in the panel truck.

SY: And when you say you didn't last that long, do you know roughly how long you did this?

YY: I think I only did it for about a month or so, month or two. Then I went to work for the hospital.

SY: So when you left this job, you would go out three, twenty-four hours every three days, so you would do that, you did it maybe twice a week for a month.

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And then when you came back you would catch up with sleep? Those three days you were off, what did you do?

YY: That, I can't remember. [Laughs]

SY: 'Cause you had three days where you didn't have to do anything.

YY: Right, right.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

SY: And then how did you make that, how did you decide to go work at the hospital?

YY: Well, one of my friends told me about this one fellow going out of camp. He was a pharmacist. And they were looking for somebody, so I went and asked, then they said they'll hire me, so then I started working there.

SY: So you didn't have to apply. There were, were there other people who wanted your, that job?

YY: Not that I know of.

SY: 'Cause you, did it, were they looking at your qualifications, like the fact that you went to school, pharmacy school?

YY: No, they didn't. They didn't say anything about, I don't remember saying anything about it. But I guess, talked to them and they said they'll hire me, so I started working there.

SY: And whereabouts was the hospital in relation to where you were, your barracks?

YY: Let's see, I was, at that time I was living in Block 28.

SY: So your family moved. And how did that happen? Why did your family --

YY: My mother wanted, had a problem with her thyroid, so she said, they asked her if she wanted to move closer to the hospital, so we moved to Block 28. There was another block, 29, and then the hospital.

SY: So you were close. And the, same thing, the whole family moved and you were in the same configuration?

YY: Yeah, we were in 28-10-2.

SY: So you were in the inner barrack, so you had people on both sides.

YY: Both sides. There were four units there, we were number two.

SY: Do you remember how long it was before you moved when you first, from the time you first got there?

YY: No. No, I can't remember.

SY: It was maybe a few months?

YY: Yeah, at least a few months.

SY: And your mother was going to the hospital regularly because of this thyroid condition. Do you remember her being sick?

YY: No. But I know at the end there she got an operation.

SY: So when you first got to the hospital, when you first started working there, can you describe it? Were there, how many rooms, how many...

YY: Well, it was a pretty good size hospital. I was, keep thinking that, they told me that it was a hundred bed hospital. And there must've been about, let's see, three, at least three Japanese physicians, that I can remember, maybe four, plus the director was a hakujin physician. And then they had, I know there was one, one fellow that was a medical student when the war broke out, and he was helping. And there was another fellow that took care of the first aid part. He wasn't, he wasn't a physician, but I don't know what his...

SY: Background.

YY: Yeah, I don't know what it was, but he did all the first aid, emergency.

SY: So by that time, when you got to the hospital, had they, there were, had there been other doctors there besides these three Japanese American doctors?

YY: That, I can't, I don't know that.

SY: But they were hired from within the camp. And they were all, you remember the doctors, who they were?

YY: I can't remember their names anymore. [Laughs]

SY: You don't have to remember the names. Do you remember anything about them?

YY: Well, I know one was a specialist in ear, nose and throat. And I know one was supposed to be a very good surgeon. But other than that, I can't...

SY: Do you know if they came from the Japanese hospital in Boyle Heights, or were they from all different areas?

YY: I'm pretty sure that they were all in the Los Angeles area.

SY: So did you, you kind of knew them just to work around them. You didn't...

YY: Yeah, well, I knew who they were, but being in a hospital, you see them all the time.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

SY: And what was your job exactly?

YY: Well, I first started out just helping around the pharmacy, and then afterwards, they gave me the job, the fellow that was working there, he moved out, so -- he got another job outside so he left the camp -- so I got this, I took his job, and it was doing inventory. I would get all the prescriptions for that day, and the next day I would take it down to where I did the accounting and everything, and I'd take inventory of what we gave away and what we were gonna need and things like that.

SY: So you pretty much kind of, was there someone else above you in this pharmacy area?

YY: Well, all the people that were in the pharmacy were above me. [Laughs]

SY: How many people were that, was that? How many people in the pharmacy?

YY: I think there was about, I think there were five.

SY: And they, do you remember them? Were they all practicing pharmacists?

YY: Yeah.

SY: And they all actually just filled the prescriptions. Doctors would give you prescriptions.

YY: Right, and we would fill it. We, we made certain medicines too. We'd get different ingredients and make it. So I learned quite a bit in that hospital.

SY: So you were the only one that was kind of counting inventory?

YY: Uh-huh. I had, we had another fellow that was, went to school with, we were in the same pharmacy school, and he was there too.

SY: So what kind of drugs would you get in mainly, what kind, what kinds of things were you counting?

YY: Well, that's, I can't remember that either.

SY: What kinds of things were you treating? Do you know, remember?

YY: No. Mostly it was, the people that were getting the prescriptions were for ladies. We had a lot of ladies. And I know we made a lot of cough medicine.

SY: People coming in with coughs. Was it like, do you remember if it was like inflammatory?

YY: I don't know, but I remember they called that medicine CNTH, and they used to make that with ingredients in the hospital there, in the pharmacy. That was for their cough medicine. But most of it was all pills and stuff like that.

SY: Just, you just had to count. So do you remember the kinds of things, were there serious things that were being treated, life threatening kinds of...

YY: I'm pretty sure. They did a lot of surgery because they had a, they even had a specialist come in from outside and do surgery.

SY: So they were probably for heart conditions, that kind of thing?

YY: Well, like, well, one of the things that I remember was they, this boy had bow legs and this physician came in and straightened it out, and he was in a cast for a long time.

SY: Wow. That sounds pretty sophisticated.

YY: So there was, then they even had one autopsy, and they asked us if anybody wanted to watch it, so I went in there. [Laughs] I remember the, only thing I can remember was it was real smelly. Couldn't stand the smell.

SY: So there was a room where you could actually watch, then, the surgery room?

YY: No, we'd go in there. Oh, into the surgery? No. But this was an autopsy that they were having.

SY: So it was a separate room. Do you remember very many deaths, like people dying in the hospital?

YY: I can't remember.

SY: But there were always, was it fairly busy? Were there always, the beds being used?

YY: Right. There was always a line getting prescriptions.

SY: And how about the doctors, were they always pretty busy?

YY: They were, yeah.

SY: So when you, when a patient came in, they would be assigned a certain doctor?

YY: Certain doctor, uh-huh.

SY: Depending on what they had, what their condition was?

YY: Right.

SY: Was there a department for, like, babies being born? Or was that a separate area?

YY: That, I can't remember. But they must've had a separate area for that.

SY: So you don't remember the mothers coming in with, for checkups or that kind of thing?

YY: I can't remember anything.

SY: So did you stay back in a separate area from the rest of the hospital?

YY: Right.

SY: It was a separate room.

YY: There was a warehouse there where they brought the materials in for the hospital, and I had a little office there in that warehouse where I did my inventory and stuff.

SY: Would you say that you were one of the youngest employees there?

YY: At the hospital? Yeah, maybe so.

SY: That was actual full, you worked, what were your hours, what kind of hours did you --

YY: I think I just had regular hours.

SY: 'Cause the hospital was open all the time, all night?

YY: Yeah, there was somebody there all day, I mean all night.

SY: In the pharmacy department too?

YY: No, not in the pharmacy department.

SY: So you had regular hours.

YY: If you needed medicine that, it was real late, they would always call. Somebody would go.

SY: So most people who worked there, you were probably one of the closer, you lived fairly close to the hospital.

YY: Right.

SY: Others lived in, anywhere within...

YY: Right, they had to walk. [Laughs]

SY: 'Cause it's a distance, probably, from one end of the camp to the hospital.

YY: Right. Or sometimes the, they had an ambulance and if it was a doctor or something, I guess, he would go and get the doctor.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

SY: So how did you like that job? Was it...

YY: It was okay. It was, I ate at the hospital.

SY: You didn't have to eat at the mess hall. How did that, how were you, did they have a special...

YY: They had a special mess hall for the hospital people.

SY: It was like a separate area?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So how many people ate in that mess hall?

YY: That, I can't remember.

SY: Was it smaller than the rest?

YY: It was smaller than the other mess halls, yeah.

SY: But the same food?

YY: I'm pretty sure it was. But it depends on the chef, how they cook the food.

SY: So was that considered a perk, that you got to eat at a separate...

YY: Well, that too, and then it's, you can go there practically any time, get something. Whereas the mess hall, it was scheduled, so you go at certain schedule.

SY: So you never, then, ate with your family at all?

YY: No.

SY: So how often did you see them?

YY: Every night, I guess.

SY: But they never knew when you would be coming home?

YY: No.

SY: Did your, was your father working at some point?

YY: He was supposed to have been working. I don't know what he was doing, but they said, he said they first started out as doing health inspections. But what happened to that, I don't know.

SY: But you know that he went somewhere every day?

YY: Yeah, 'cause I don't think he could walk that much.

SY: He was, you remember how old he was by then?

YY: Let's see, must've been in his sixties.

SY: So he didn't want to work in the hospital? Like, because he had the pharmaceutical training too, right?

YY: Yeah, but then there was pharmacists.

SY: Quite a few. And how about your mother, do you, was she...

YY: No, I don't think she ever did work.

SY: But you remember her, you don't remember her being sick?

YY: No, but I remember she was going to the hospital, but she didn't act real sick.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

SY: And did they have, like you remember the activities that you had outside of work?

YY: Well, I remember we had a basketball team. It was made up by, it was called the Mailmen. It was most of the people that worked at the hospital, not the hospital but the mailroom.

SY: So you played on that team with the people from the mailroom?

YY: Right.

SY: So they were mainly the same age as you are, you were.

YY: Yeah, mostly.

SY: And you played other...

YY: I played some softball. They had movies. [Laughs] It was outside movies; it was only good in the summertime, I think.

SY: So you tried to do activities at night. You were busy, usually?

YY: Right. Then I decided to go back to judo school. But I didn't last too long there.

SY: You just didn't like it?

YY: Well, I can't remember why, but I couldn't get to the place to practice all the time.

SY: It was kind of far?

YY: Yeah. It was where I used to live. It was in the, right near Block 10. Was a real nice place they built.

SY: A judo facility. And the, did you ever fish when you were there?

YY: No, I wasn't a fisherman.

SY: So even though you knew where it was... so how did people go outside of camp to fish? Was it something they did --

YY: They'd have to go under the fence, I guess. [Laughs]

SY: So it wasn't allowed, but they would sneak out.

YY: Right, they had to sneak out at night, where they can't be seen.

SY: And they, as far as you know, they were still cleaning the, people would still go out and clean those, the reservoir?

YY: Yeah, they'd have to, if they were gonna use that reservoir.

SY: So in the hospital, did you move up, or did you just stay in that one job?

YY: No, I just stayed, stayed doing that. Then if I had time, then I would go back to the hospital and help them, whatever they need. So I learned quite a bit, because they used to make different things.

SY: So it was mostly, though, with the prescriptions. So was that, did that keep you interested in pharmacy work?

YY: Not really. [Laughs] 'Cause I didn't continue it after I got out.

SY: So you didn't, you weren't really, that wasn't your favorite line of work?

YY: No. Well, because I'd see what my father used to do, work all that, nine to nine hours, it's not for me.

SY: You like more regular hours. And then I'm still trying to get a sense of what the hospital, what kinds of things the hospital did. There was also an incident where, did you remember hearing about the incident where someone was supposedly hiding in the hospital?

YY: No, I never heard of that.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

SY: Were you there during that time of the riots?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And you remember any of that, what that was like, what happened?

YY: No, 'cause I didn't hear of it until later because it was after, after the riot that I learned about it.

SY: So what did you learn? How did you learn?

YY: That somebody got killed.

SY: And you remember hearing how it happened?

YY: No, what I remember, way afterwards, they were telling us why, what happened and why. But I didn't, I didn't hear about the riot until much later.

SY: It was way after it happened?

YY: Next day after it happened.

SY: So you had no, like, firsthand, nothing, no...

YY: No, I didn't know that it was going on. [Laughs]

SY: Now, is that, how did that happen?

YY: Well, I think I was asleep.

SY: And you remember where it was that they said it happened? Was it far away from where you were?

YY: Yeah, 'cause I think it was near the entrance to the camp, where it happened. And I was way on this side.

SY: And did you, what did you hear about why it happened?

YY: Well, I think that they were saying that the food was being, the good stuff was being taken by the white people, the other stuff would be given to the people in the camp. I think that was, I think that was the main thing that they were objecting to. They were saying that they were taking the food and selling it, making money and things like that. This is just all hearsay.

SY: And do you remember how, what you heard about how the guy got killed?

YY: No, I don't remember that.

SY: So it was just part of this, this kind of riot, several, lots of people involved.

YY: I think it was a very young fellow that died.

SY: So nobody you knew, as far as you knew, was involved or knew, or was around when that happened?

YY: No, I can't remember anybody.

SY: And is, did you have any kind of reaction to it? How did you feel when you heard about it?

YY: I don't know.

SY: Was it scary?

YY: No, it wasn't scary. I don't think I was scared or anything.

SY: It was just, was it shocking? Was it surprising?

YY: Yeah, it was surprising. I didn't think they would go that far. People getting killed, that's something else too.

SY: But that wouldn't, that guy who got killed, he never came to the hospital, that never affected anything that happened in the hospital?

YY: I didn't, that, I don't know 'cause I wasn't at the hospital.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

SY: So were there, do you remember people dying, very many people dying in the hospital?

YY: I'm pretty sure, at that time I knew when people were dying, but I don't know how many people died. 'Cause they would always tell you that somebody had died.

SY: Was it a lot of older...

YY: Older people.

SY: So it was natural causes.

YY: Right, mostly.

SY: And were there any that you remember that were kind of unusual?

YY: No.

SY: People who might have taken too many pills or something like that?

YY: No, I don't, can't remember anybody. It's been some time, so I keep forgetting things. But I remember, I remember people dying.

SY: So nothing stands out in your mind of when you were working there, something really unusual.

YY: No, I don't remember anything.

SY: Just a lot of mostly women getting treated. So there was, do you remember people having that, I guess it was a, what they call valley fever?

YY: No, I don't remember valley fever.

SY: I wonder if that was not at Manzanar, if that was a condition that people that had in Manzanar, it was mostly other camps.

YY: No, I don't remember any valley fever in Manzanar.

SY: But the, now, the dust was something that created a lot of problems, right?

YY: Yeah. But afterwards it wasn't getting too bad because they built basketball and baseball fields and things like that, and then they would water it and stuff like that, so it wouldn't... but when we first got there is when it was really bad.

SY: So it got better, then, as time went on.

YY: Yeah. Then they built that, the farmers had a farm out there and that killed a lot of dust. The food got better too, after the farm.

SY: They actually fed you food from the, that they grew. So more fresh vegetables and things like that. How, I mean, what was the worst part about the weather? Do you remember it being certain things? Was it the hot or was it the cold?

YY: I think it's the hot that bothered me more than anything. It got cold, but it wasn't really that cold. I don't remember it snowing. Somebody said it snowed in Manzanar, but I don't remember that. The mountains were real close too. They had snow on the mountains, but I don't remember it being real cold, not like Heart Mountain and all those places.

SY: So, and when it would get hot, the hospital would get real hot too? People were suffering from the heat inside?

YY: I can't remember.

SY: As far as you know, there wasn't that...

YY: I can't remember it being hot in the hospital.

SY: But the, I mean, it was fairly, fairly regular, the hospital.

YY: Yeah.

SY: Nothing unusual.

YY: No, not that I can remember, nothing happening.

SY: And the doctors stayed the same throughout the whole time you were there? Or was there turnover?

YY: I think one or two left, and I don't know if anybody took their places. But then the camp was getting smaller too 'cause people were leaving too.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

SY: So your family stayed at Manzanar pretty much the whole time? Or when did they end up leaving? When did you, how did that happen? How did you end up...

YY: Well, I left in, let's see, it was April, no... I think I got married in April, then I left in May --

SY: In camp? Now, how --

YY: We went out to Phoenix.

SY: To get married.

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And so you met your wife in camp.

YY: Yeah.

SY: And where, how did you meet her?

YY: She was working in the hospital.

SY: What was she doing?

YY: She was doing some secretarial work.

SY: So she wasn't in the medical field, she was just working in an office.

YY: Office, uh-huh.

SY: So you met her, she, had she already graduated from...

YY: She had graduated from Fullerton JC.

SY: And she was, was her family there in camp as well?

YY: Yeah.

SY: So you met her, do you remember how long you knew each other before you got married?

YY: Over a year, I think.

SY: And she was, so you kind of dated and did things at night together.

YY: Yeah. I remember going to the movies together. They had these different, she used to belong to a girls club and they used to have little get-togethers, so we'd go to those.

SY: She was, was she much, same age as you?

YY: She was one year older than me.

SY: And as far as you know, she worked in the hospital the whole time you were there?

YY: I don't think she did, but she was there when I started going.

SY: She was already there when you started. So you would see her every day, then, when you...

YY: No, not really.

SY: But you'd maybe eat together? Would you eat together?

YY: Well, I can't even remember doing that either. [Laughs]

SY: So how did, you don't remember kind of courting her, how, what you did to, the whole courtship thing while in camp?

YY: I know we went to a lot of places together. Nothing during the daytime, I don't think.

SY: And your friends, were they, did they all have girlfriends? Or was it unusual to have a girlfriend while you were in camp?

YY: Well, some of 'em, but most of 'em that, they had girlfriends, I think. But maybe some, I don't know. I can't remember that either.

SY: But it was not unusual to have a girlfriend while you were in camp. Is that something you were thinking about when you were there?

YY: No.

SY: Did you have girlfriends before her?

YY: Yeah. When I was going to JC and stuff like that.

SY: And then when the war started, then did that affect...

YY: Yeah, 'cause I lost track of all these people that I used to know 'cause they went to different camps and I didn't know what camps they went to.

SY: So you just lost track, basically. So when you first got to, so do you remember first meeting your wife?

YY: No, not really. I can't remember.

SY: And were there other women in camp that you were, you dated?

YY: Well, there was, I think there was one other girl that I went out with, but I don't know what happened. We never got together again.

SY: So how is it that they allowed you to go outside of camp to get married? What, how, what was the procedure for that?

YY: We just said that we were gonna go to another camp, and they gave us a pass to go to another camp. And we just went to Phoenix and got married, and from Phoenix we went to Cleveland.

SY: So you were planning to get married and then leave camp, that was part of your plan?

YY: Right.

SY: So at that time everybody was just allowed to leave if they...

YY: Right.

SY: Was there any kind of form, some reason that you had to leave?

YY: No, I think, I can't remember what we had to do. But they gave us permission to go to Phoenix, so then from there --

SY: So why did you choose Phoenix?

YY: It was the closest place to, otherwise we had to go to Las Vegas. But a lot of people went to, went through Las Vegas to go back East. But we thought it would be easier to go to Phoenix.

SY: And so there was no thought of getting married in camp?

YY: No.

SY: Nobody, did people get married in camp? I don't even know that.

YY: I'm pretty sure they did.

SY: So there were ministers --

YY: I heard that there was weddings, but I never went to one, so I don't know.

SY: And both of you wanted to go outside to get married.

YY: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

SY: So you were ready at this point to leave camp, is that the reason you decided?

YY: Right.

SY: So you, when you were talking about it, was that all part of the same, getting married and leaving was all together?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And how did your parents feel about your getting married and leaving camp?

YY: They didn't say.

SY: 'Cause they were, were they thinking of leaving at the same time?

YY: No.

SY: And do you remember what year that was that you...

YY: 1944.

SY: So were you one of the early ones to leave?

YY: No.

SY: You were toward the middle.

YY: I think I was toward, one of the later ones. [Laughs]

SY: So you had worked in the hospital probably how many years?

YY: Let's see, maybe a couple of years.

SY: And then what did they, did you tell them when you were leaving?

YY: Not that I know of. I can't remember.

SY: They had to replace you?

YY: I don't think so. I think the camp was going, getting smaller and smaller.

SY: Closing, so that's why it was easier to leave. And why did you pick, I mean, how exactly did you get to Arizona?

YY: On a bus.

SY: So you had saved enough money to take the bus, and did they give you any additional funds to leave?

YY: I can't remember. I think they must've given us some money. I can't remember. Twenty-five dollars? I don't know.

SY: So you and your, she was your fiance then, you went to Phoenix, and how long did you stay in Phoenix?

YY: Overnight, I think.

SY: And you were, you had friends, or did you just use --

YY: No.

SY: Just the two of you. And from Phoenix what did you do?

YY: We got on the plane, not a plane, on the train.

SY: On a train. And you went to, how did you decide where to go?

YY: This friend of ours was in Cleveland. They told us to come to Cleveland, so we decided to go to Cleveland.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

SY: So you had a friend that was in Cleveland. Now, how did, how long had he been there? Was he, did he, was he at Manzanar?

YY: No, they were in another camp.

SY: But he had written you and said, "Why don't you come to Cleveland?"

YY: Right. So we went to Cleveland.

SY: How, what was it like going from camp to Arizona to Cleveland on a train?

YY: Well, when we got on the plane, train, there was a fellow, there was a soldier there sitting in front. He came back to us and he says, "You from Los Angeles?" And I said, "Yeah." Then he says, "Where'd you go to school?" I said, "Roosevelt." And he said, "Oh, I went to Roosevelt." [Laughs] So he, I remember that. He came back to talk to us. But the train was filled with soldiers, going someplace, I don't know.

SY: So how did you avoid the draft?

YY: Well, I had took my physical in Cleveland, and after that I never heard anything.

SY: So when you were in camp they didn't have, I mean, did you have to sign the questionnaire, the draft questionnaire?

YY: Yeah, then, so then we were able to leave to go to Cleveland.

SY: So it was right around the same time?

YY: About maybe four or five months later, the draft board sent us a thing saying come for a physical, so we went, I mean I went.

SY: In Cleveland.

YY: In Cleveland, yeah. Then I never heard anything after that, so the army must've lost my papers or something, so I'm not, I wasn't quarrelling. I didn't go and ask why. [Laughs]

SY: So you basically would've served because it was, you answered "yes-yes" to the...

YY: Yeah.

SY: And your parents, did they say anything about that when you, you never talked to them about what you were gonna do if you had to be drafted or not? [YY shakes head] They ended up, your parents left after you left for Cleveland?

YY: They came to Cleveland much later.

SY: So they ended up joining you.

YY: When the camp closed, they came out to Cleveland.

SY: So it was maybe a year later?

YY: Yeah, I think so. Then they went back, when they were able to go back to the West Coast they just left, went to the West, came back to Los Angeles. But we came back in 1947.

SY: So you were in Cleveland for a couple years.

YY: Yeah, we were there in '44, so we came back in '47.

SY: So when you were on this train, where were all the soldiers going?

YY: That, I don't know.

SY: They were just on the same train going to Cleveland? Or did they get off?

YY: That's where it ended up, but I don't know where they got off. 'Cause I think maybe they were getting, they were going to their own home or something. I don't know.

SY: And so you didn't ever feel uncomfortable because you were Japanese and then there were other people around that might have looked at you differently?

YY: Well, they didn't say anything to us, so we didn't, we didn't...

SY: You never had a bad incident where anything happened because you were Japanese.

YY: No. Maybe it's 'cause we were talking to the soldier, didn't say anything.

SY: So were you concerned about, about the fact you were going to Cleveland?

YY: No.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 24>

SY: And did you have any anticipation about what life was gonna be like in Cleveland?

YY: Well yeah, we were wondering about that, but it went okay. My wife got a job right away. And I guess they were looking for people 'cause, especially men because they're all getting drafted, so there was a lot of jobs. So I changed, let's see, I started in the machine shop first, then I went to work in an envelope making place, and I ended up making tables and chairs. [Laughs]

SY: Now, it was a separate business from the envelope making?

YY: Yeah, the guy, the people I knew, they said, "Come and work with us." He says, "You make more money, everything is piece work."

SY: You remember how much you got paid?

YY: It depended on the amount of work you did, but I think the most I ever got was seventy-five dollars, for the week.

SY: For the week. So that was pretty good, pretty good money for, for...

YY: Yeah, at that time it was pretty good money. But that was the most I ever got. I remember that.

SY: Normally it wasn't that much.

YY: No.

SY: And where were you living at the time?

YY: We were living, at that time we were living on the east side.

SY: What was the area like on the east side?

YY: Well, it's, I guess it's poor white people. [Laughs] It was average, it wasn't, it was kind of old. The buildings were kind of old. 'Cause my neighbor was, what, she was Polish, and we had an apartment where we had a kitchen and a living room and a bedroom, and the bathroom we had to share with this Polish couple. We had a Polish couple in front. Then she told us, "You don't have to clean it." She says, "I'll clean it." So we never, we never touched the toilet and the bathroom because she was there every day cleaning the place. She was really a person that liked to do cleaning, I guess. A young lady, but she was always cleaning.

SY: Was she an immigrant?

YY: No.

SY: She had lived in...

YY: She grew up in Cleveland, she said.

SY: She grew up there. And she never mentioned anything about you being Japanese?

YY: No. And her husband came maybe about a couple months after we got there, he got discharged from the army or something, and so he came back, so he was there.

SY: Did, as far as you know, did he ever say, did he know anything about the 442nd?

YY: No, I don't know.

SY: He never talked about it, where he served.

YY: No.

SY: But the, this area that you were living in, were you the only Japanese American couple?

YY: No. No, there was Japanese living upstairs and in front and on the side. It was a, let's see, four unit place, and three of us were Japanese, and the one Polish lady.

SY: And you found, so she was the only one who wasn't Japanese in your building.

YY: No.

SY: There were, so you found, how did you find this place?

YY: Some of our friends recommended it, 'cause we were living on the west side, but when our son was born we had to move. So then this, our friend told us about this place being open, so we went and moved in there.

SY: And it was a two bedroom?

YY: No, it was a one bedroom place.

SY: But bigger.

YY: Yeah. And it had a big living room and a bigger kitchen.

SY: And how long were you in, so that's the place you ended up staying until 1947?

YY: Yeah.

SY: And you changed jobs several times?

YY: No, the, yeah, three times and then the third time I stayed 'til the end.

SY: And were your friends all staying there while you were there, or did they, were they slowly leaving?

YY: No, they were still there from before. We left before they did.

SY: So you were one of the first people to move, leave.

YY: I think so. Well, we were one of the earlier ones, anyway.

SY: Was it your intention to come back to the West Coast eventually?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: That was something you had...

YY: Yeah.

SY: So how did you like living in Cleveland? Was it...

YY: Well, it seemed like it was like a small town. Everything, all the streetcars went to the square, ended up there, so you didn't have to worry about where you were going. [Laughs] And seems like, well, it seemed like it was not like a big city like L.A. Seemed like it's a little small town. So I liked it except for the weather. It was cold.

SY: So, and your wife was happy there?

YY: Yeah.

SY: So after you had your child -- it was a son?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: Then she had to stay home, she didn't work anymore.

YY: Yeah.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 25>

SY: And do you remember how you decided to come back to L.A.?

YY: Well, we had, I had bought a car, a 1940 Ford, and then we decided, well, we could go back on the car. So we fixed it up so that the baby could sleep in the back. It was a two door sedan, I think that's what it was. It was like a two door sedan. But it brought us back to L.A.

SY: That must've taken you a while.

YY: Well, it did because we stopped at different places, and we stopped with our friends in Chicago, so I think it took us about two weeks to get home, I mean go back.

SY: And you never had any bad experiences with people saying, because you were Japanese American --

YY: Japanese, no.

SY: Never?

YY: No. I don't remember any bad... 'cause we had to stop on the way back several times, but I don't remember being told that we can't stay there.

SY: So you didn't have any trouble finding places to stay.

YY: Yeah, I guess we were fortunate.

SY: So when you decided to come back to L.A., were you intending, did you have a job in mind, or you were just gonna move and then see what...

YY: No. We used to, we came back and we stayed with her parents 'cause they were there already in Montebello. Then in January of '48 I got a job with... no, was it '48? Yeah, I got a job with L.A. City Health Department. And then in 1949 I took the, they have this registered sanitarian's certificate that you have to have to be a health inspector in L.A., in the city of, or in the state of California. So I passed that in 1949, then I passed the national one, the National Sanitarians Association, and I got their certificate, registration, so then I was able to be promoted at the L.A. City Health Department. And I worked there for about, let's see, 1952, I left and went to work for the city of, County of Los Angeles Health Department.

SY: And so when you originally started, it wasn't, a college degree was not important or anything like that?

YY: Right

SY: So you just, and what exactly did you do when you first started?

YY: I was doing mostly rodent control.

SY: Going to different places in L.A.?

YY: Mostly in the L.A. city hall. [Laughs]

SY: Lots of rats there, huh?

YY: Yeah.

SY: And what, you just inspected, you didn't have to do any kind of rodent control.

YY: No, yeah, 'cause we were worried about disease from the... so I would, I would catch the rodents in City Hall, then I'd take it up to our lab and we would comb it for fleas and stuff like that, find out if they're carrying any kind of disease. And we'd cut it up and look at it.

SY: You actually did this yourself? [YY nods] And how were you trained to do this?

YY: When you first join the health department we have to go to school for over six weeks, I think. We'd learn about the laws of, the health laws and things like that, and all these different things that, we learned about the rats and things, and mosquitoes and things. Then we have to go, we have to go to night school. I went to City College and took courses that was needed to take the examination for registration.

SY: So there's a lot of education involved. And so did the medical, your being in a hospital, that helped you?

YY: Yeah, it helped a little bit, but it was altogether different things that we had to study for.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 26>

SY: So you never had ambition to become a doctor or become a pharmacist?

YY: Pharmacist, no.

SY: And you never felt like you wanted to go back to school?

YY: Well, I did afterwards. Then I got my bachelor's degree in administration, health services administration.

SY: And when was that?

YY: That was in the '70s.

SY: So you worked all, for many, many years before you went back to school. And that was, why did you decide to get back to school?

YY: Well, I was going into administration, so I thought it was a chance to go to school, all that. Then I was, I went into community relations. I got, I didn't take an exam or anything, but they, I got appointed.

SY: How did you get appointed to...

YY: Health officer came and asked me if I wanted to me, wanted this position, and I said, I jumped at it. [Laughs] More money and different kind of job.

SY: And why was it that he picked you, do you think?

YY: Well, I think because I was one of the founders of the Los Angeles County Asian American Employees Association, and I spent two years as the president. And so this job was supposed to be for Asians, community relations with the Asians community, so I think that was one of the reasons he picked me.

SY: So let's back up, and so when, you were a health inspector for, until, until that time, and then you got into administration? So all that time up to that point you were a health inspector?

YY: Well, seventeen of those years were in occupational health, and I was doing industrial hygiene work.

SY: So you were doing, going around and inspecting for bigger problems?

YY: Industrial hygiene, our work mostly was more the, from the complaints that we get about people getting sick on the job. And in California, the doctors, when they treat a person that got injured on the job or got ill on the job, they have to send a form into the state and the state sends it to us in our community. So we would go through it, and if we find something that we thought would be, say like they're breathing air that's foul or they're getting sick from dust, radiation, things like that, we would go out and investigate to see if it would harm other people, make other people sick. And if we would, if we thought it might be a problem we would go out there and test an area. We'd have instruments and things that we would take out and measure things, and we would do that.

SY: So you needed additional training for that job as well?

YY: Yeah, 'cause I went to Cincinnati to Public Health Services and I took eighty hours of industrial hygiene engineering. And Public Health Services gave classes here, forty hour courses, and I took it in different subjects, like heat and stuff like that.

SY: So that was --

YY: I had to do a lot of going to class.

SY: And that was considered, you got more pay for that, that industrial hygiene work.

YY: Hygiene.

SY: And how is it that the L.A. County Asian American Employees Association started?

YY: Well, it started because we felt that since the blacks and the Latinos have their own organization, we would fall back if we didn't get organized. So we started looking for membership, and we had about three hundred when we first started out.

SY: And that was when, in the '70s?

YY: It was, yeah, '71 and '72.

SY: And what was your role? How did you, how were you involved in starting it?

YY: Well, we, there was, let's see, there was about four or five of us that decided we want to do it, so we tried to, we talked to different people to join and get together and join. So we went out and tried and get all the employees we can to join the association. And we got it started.

SY: Were they all, were you mostly involved with people in the health department?

YY: That's where we started, yeah. Then we got a fellow from the employee, employment office, they were interested in it too, so he got in the area. So we talked to different people in different departments to see if we could get them to join.

SY: So was this all in one, like did L.A. County have central offices for all these people?

YY: The health department, yeah. We started in the health department.

SY: You started there. And then what other kinds of employees did you eventually...

YY: We went to see the, well, the first thing we went to was the employment area, where they employed people, and we got them to help us. Then we went to, let's see... can't think of the name of these agencies, but we went to several agencies looking for people.

SY: And how much work was involved? How much time did you have to put in to do this? Was it a...

YY: I can't remember that either. 'Cause we had to work too, and I can't remember how we were able to do this.

SY: You did it on the side.

YY: I remember we had, we called a meeting one time and asked the people to come after work to hear what we had going.

SY: And what was your, your biggest pitch was that you needed an Asian American...

YY: We needed an association or we were gonna fall back way behind the blacks and the, getting jobs and getting promotions. That was our big thing, getting promotions, 'cause they're talking about affirmative action and, and you see, it wasn't included, the Asians weren't included in affirmative action, so we had to work to get our share in there.

SY: So then you had to deal with the administration to try to get more promotions for people?

YY: Right, yeah. We had to make them aware that we were interested in getting promoted too. [Laughs]

SY: So in that group, how, what was the percentage of Japanese Americans?

YY: Well, not that much 'cause there was a lot of, let's see, we had Filipinos and we had Chinese. Well, maybe, I don't know, maybe one quarter Japanese.

SY: And was it something that, was there an awareness about the whole issue of having been to camp? Was that even something that you talked about in this organization?

YY: No.

SY: It had nothing --

YY: No, nothing to do with it.

SY: No bearing at all.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 27>

SY: Now, did you stay in touch with people that were in camp during this time?

YY: Not, no, not really.

SY: Where were you, so where were you living when you, as you...

YY: I was living in, we were living, when we came back from Cleveland we were living in Montebello.

SY: And then you found your own place there?

YY: Then we went to live in El Monte with my wife's brother, and then from there we bought a place in Rosemead. We bought a house in Rosemead. When my, we moved because when we were in Rosemead we bought, she found another house that she liked better, so we sold that and bought another house in Rosemead.

SY: Was that the area that she, her family, she grew up in?

YY: No, no. She was, she grew up in Norwalk.

SY: But she had family members, her brother was sort of close by.

YY: Yeah, in El Monte.

SY: And in the meantime, where were your parents? Were they still in...

YY: They were in, they were in Boyle Heights.

SY: They stayed in Boyle Heights. And did they have problems adjusting after the war?

YY: I don't think so. Then my parents opened up, went to work at, in a, they rented a hotel and they were working in, working that. That was on, it was on Figueroa and, Figueroa and I think about Seventh Street or Eighth Street.

SY: So they operated it? They didn't own it, they just operated it?

YY: No, they just operated it.

SY: So your father was a fairly good businessman, then, huh?

YY: I think it was my mother that was going into the hotel business more than my father. [Laughs]

SY: But they didn't live there, they just...

YY: No, they lived there.

SY: They lived there.

YY: They lived in the hotel and they...

SY: What was the hotel?

YY: I don't know the name of it, but it was on Figueroa and Seventh Street, something around in there. I don't think the building's there now, 'cause I remember she had to move because they were gonna tear it down. Then she had a place, a hotel in front of the general hospital on, let's see...

SY: In the area that, yeah, I'm trying to think what the name of the streets are.

YY: Yeah, me too. I can't remember anything. [Laughs]

SY: General hospital area. So she, they actually had to move, they went from one hotel to the next, so they moved the whole family? Your sisters, were they living there with them?

YY: Just my youngest sister.

SY: So you don't --

YY: My other sister, she was still in, she was still there, she was still... I think she was married already.

SY: After camp.

YY: No, she came back here and got married.

SY: So she was living on her own.

YY: Yeah, she was living in New York by herself.

SY: She went to New York? She went to school in New York?

YY: No, she didn't go to school.

SY: She just relocated. So your father never wanted to open up another pharmacy?

YY: A pharmacy, no.

SY: Did he ever talk --

YY: 'Cause he always said he was too old. So then he, then he was able to get social security after that, so he was living on his social security.

SY: So they didn't, as far as you know, they didn't have any kind of financial, I mean, that whole readjusting to life after camp, was it difficult for them?

YY: Well I, if it was I couldn't, I don't remember seeing it that way.

SY: When you came back they had already started the hotel? They were already living in the hotel when you came back to L.A.?

YY: No, not that time, not at that time. I don't know what they were doing at that time. But then they just, much, well, it wasn't much later, but all I can remember is that they started a hotel on Figueroa Street. Then when they tore that down, they went to one on, near the hospital. And then after that I think they retired, after that.

SY: And they ended up staying, where did they live when they retired?

YY: They were living in Boyle Heights, and then my father passed away and then my mother went to live in Little Tokyo Towers, and she lived there 'til she passed away.

SY: She lived to be quite elderly, then.

YY: She was ninety-two.

SY: And they didn't stay, you didn't stay real close to them. In other words, they didn't depend on you for, for help.

YY: No. Well, I used to go see my mother when she was living in Little Tokyo Towers, but my youngest sister, she used to see her more than I did.

SY: And so when you moved back and they were managing these hotels, and you really didn't see them that much.

YY: No. I don't know how often I went, but it wasn't very often.

SY: So your father never really pressured you to go into pharmacy, become a pharmacy?

YY: No.

SY: I mean a pharmacist. [Laughs] He was fine with your career choice.

YY: Yeah.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 28>

SY: And you had how many children eventually, then?

YY: I had, my daughter was born in Whittier when we came back. We were living in Monte Bello, so she was born, let's see, 1949 or 1950. I can't remember. Someplace in there. [Laughs]

SY: And that, so all that time that your children were growing up, you were going to school and working, so was that a difficult period?

YY: No.

SY: It wasn't particularly hard 'cause you were having to learn all this new...

YY: Right. [Laughs] But no, I didn't find it too bad.

SY: And then getting a degree, how, what kinds of hours did you have to work and go to school? What was that...

YY: Well, it was, most, mostly it was, the traveling bothered me the most, not the going to the school or learning things.

SY: Studying.

YY: Yeah.

SY: You never had a hard time at school?

YY: No.

SY: So when you formed this organization it grew quite quickly?

YY: It went, last, the first few years I think it was going pretty good, then all of a sudden it was hard to keep, keep the people interested. Then it stalled for a while, but now I think it's really grown, all these years.

SY: So it's still around and it's a very, very big organization.

YY: Right.

SY: Do, you don't stay in touch with...

YY: No, I went to a meeting maybe two years ago, and that was about it. I haven't kept in touch with them, association hall.

SY: So what kinds of things do, over the years, what kinds of things did they do, and how did it grow? You know what it does now?

YY: Well, it's, I remember we used to take part in this, they used to have a big, I think the city put it on, where all these Asian groups got together at Echo Park, I think it was in... and then we participated in that, trying to make money so that we could keep the association going. And we did that for several years. And we always had dinners that we'd go to.

SY: Raise money that way?

YY: Right.

SY: So you were looking to raise money that whole time as well.

YY: Well, most of the time we wanted to raise money 'cause we were, money, we had newsletters and things like that, and that takes money to send it out and things like that. So we always were looking for ways to benefit our association.

SY: So were you an officer in the...

YY: Well, the first two years I was, I was vice president the first year, then next two years I was president. The first year, the fellow from, one other fellow that, he's a Korean fellow, was the president. Can't think of his name now.

SY: So you really -- but at some point, though, you decided the organization had something to do with mental health, right?

YY: No, that was one of our things, was to get Asians a mental health clinic and a regular clinic, but we succeeded because they did build a mental health clinic for Asians.

SY: So whose idea was that, the mental health clinic?

YY: I don't know, somebody that was working in mental health was... [Laughs]

SY: They were with your Asian American...

YY: Association, uh-huh.

SY: County, county workers basically. And they, so is that something that there was a need for at that time?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: They were realizing that all the different groups needed a facility?

YY: Right. Because they needed Asian speaking people to help patients that didn't speak English.

SY: So where, what exactly did the organization have to do to make that happen?

YY: Well, we had to do a lot of lobbying.

SY: You had to raise money.

YY: Right.

SY: And this was in the '80s?

YY: Must've been, I think. Yeah.

SY: And how, so how did that happen? You actually got funding for this?

YY: Yeah. I don't know, one of the, one of the doctors, Japanese doctors, I think they had a lot to do with it too. There was a couple of Japanese doctors that, in mental health, and I think they did a lot of lobbying for it too, and that helped.

SY: So it was kind of a group effort, not just your county employees, but it was different groups got together.

YY: Right. Yeah, you have to do it that way.

SY: And that...

YY: They can't say that we were the one that did it. It was a deal that every, involved a lot of people.

SY: And did you have to get, like, were you involved in the licensing? Was that the --

YY: No, no. We just, we were just trying to get a clinic for the Asians.

SY: And you, and so do you remember exactly what your part was? Did you just, were you going to meetings?

YY: Yeah, we were all doing that all the time. But I didn't do any sort of, half as much as, or even a quarter as much as what all these other guys were doing.

SY: But spent a lot of time, right? I mean, it took a lot of time.

YY: Right.

SY: And you were still working full time and doing this.

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So when did that clinic open? Do you remember?

YY: No, I can't remember.

SY: And is it something that's still operating?

YY: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is.

SY: And how do you have, how do you keep it funded? Is it something that they still keep raising money for?

YY: No, I think the state is giving them the money.

SY: And the county also?

YY: Yeah, well through the county, yes.

SY: Through the county. So is that, would you consider that one of the biggest accomplishments that you, or what would you consider the biggest accomplishment that the L.A. County...

YY: Health, employees association?

SY: Uh-huh.

YY: No, I think the biggest thing is that we were able to become known that we were there by the big bosses. I think that, I think that's the way a lot of our people are being promoted now. 'Cause we have a lot of department heads in the county that are Japanese. And look at the CEO, William Fujioka, he's up there now.

SY: Was he involved at all at the time of the...

YY: No, all I remember, he was working in the, I remember meeting him because he was a friend of my, he was a son of a friend of mine. And then he became head of the hospital in, out in the Valley. I remember that. And after that I lost track of him, and then all of a sudden he's a CEO of city of L.A., then he retired and became CEO of the county.

SY: That's nice.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 29>

SY: So yeah, so when did you, then, finally end up retiring?

YY: I retired in 1982. I figured that I could get seventy-five, no eighty-five percent, I can get eighty-five percent of my salary.

SY: And you had worked for the county for how long?

YY: I got credit for thirty-six years. And I thought, well, no sense working for fifteen percent, so I retired. [Laughs]

SY: And so what are you, what have been your main interests since you retired?

YY: Well, I think golf was the main thing. I was a member of (Topflite) Club for fifty years, over fifty years.

SY: Fifty years, so when did you start that? I mean, what was the...

YY: I started playing in '57.

SY: So it was after the war, and all Japanese American?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: And you all kind of knew each other, or how did that happen?

YY: Well, you start playing golf, and then you wanted to be able to play different courses, so you join the club. So then I became officer in the Nisei, Southern California Nisei Golf Association, and when I was treasurer, let's see, we had fourteen hundred, over fourteen hundred members and about thirty-seven clubs that belonged to the association.

SY: That's a lot of golfers, fourteen hundred.

YY: Yeah.

SY: And what kind of things did that association do?

YY: Well, we were able to get their, keep their handicaps going, and we had monthly, I think, yeah, we had monthly tournaments.

SY: Monthly tournaments for all the members?

YY: Well, it's not all. Nobody, a lot of people have their own tournaments, different clubs, but we'd get at least a hundred, over a hundred people playing in the tournaments.

SY: And did they, so the association just had a yearly dues and then you could play in the tournament?

YY: Right, but you have to pay for the tournament, though. [Laughs]

SY: And then you have to, and did you raise money for anything? Were you...

YY: No, because we just had enough money to pay for the tournament prizes and things like that.

SY: So this has kept you in touch with the Japanese American community.

YY: Right.

SY: So the members that, when you first started, were they all people who were in camp? I mean, most of the people were...

YY: Yeah, most of the people in camp.

SY: So you really had a lot of friends who...

YY: Yeah, I knew a lot of people.

SY: From different camps, though, not just Manzanar.

YY: Yeah.

SY: Did you stay in touch with people from Manzanar?

YY: Not very many.

SY: And why is that?

YY: I don't know. 'Cause I, well, most of, I knew most of the Terminal Island people 'cause they had their own group, and they had their tournaments and I used to go to those.

SY: So you're closest to the Terminal Island people. And then how about the Boyle Heights people? Were you, did they have...

YY: They were all scattered. But I kept track with a few of the Boyle Heights people, but...

SY: So when you guys all played golf or get together, do you talk about camp? Do people have --

YY: No.

SY: Nothing?

YY: Nobody.

SY: Nobody ever talks about it.

YY: No.

SY: Why do you think that is?

YY: I don't know. I don't talk about it because I don't feel that it did me any good and no sense talking about it, you know? So I don't talk about it. I don't think my kids ever asked me any questions about it, so I never told 'em. I don't think they know what happened in camp.

<End Segment 29> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 30>

SY: So you, in general, you think it was a terrible experience, camp?

YY: Yeah, I didn't care for it that much. But then, I met my wife, so... [Laughs]

SY: And as far as you know, your friends, people who were in camp, who never talk about it, I mean, do you think that's the general feeling?

YY: I don't know what their feelings are, but it never comes up, so we never talk about it.

SY: Even though you're... so what kinds of things do you talk about, then? Mainly golf?

YY: Mostly. What happened in golf.

SY: And they don't, most of them don't go to these reunions or, camp reunions, things like that?

YY: Well, the younger people do, I think, the people that were in high school. The people that didn't go to school there, I don't think they, their friends don't go either, so... like the, Manzanar has a reunion every year, but it's, the people that are on the committee are all people that went to high school there. So I didn't go to high school there, so I don't know anybody. [Laughs]

SY: Is it, do you think that your age, so your age has a lot do with it, in terms of what you, what your memory is of camp?

YY: Yes, I think so. I think the young people liked it there. They made a lot of friends and didn't have to do anything.

SY: So how do you feel when you hear things like that? Does it...

YY: It doesn't bother me, but it's just that they, they didn't have that same kind of growing up as we had. We had lots of, where we were turned away from different things. Like we wanted to go to this pool or something, and they said, "No, you can't. You can only come on Mondays when we clean the pool," or something.

SY: Before, that was before camp?

YY: That was before camp. And a lot of places that, they wouldn't let us in, but, so we had to stick to our own neighborhoods. Yeah.

SY: And then during camp, what, was it because... I mean, why do you, why is it a less pleasant experience for you?

YY: Well, what I remember is that we had, I was going to school and now I was, can't go to school. And another thing is that we had to move out so fast, we lost all this stuff, and if the war didn't happen we wouldn't be living like this, in camp.

SY: So it made a big, bigger impression on you.

YY: Right, being, we lost so much, you know. A lot of things that you think you had, you wonder what happened to it.

SY: So that's why you prefer not talking so much about it.

YY: Well, it's not that, but it's that I, that's something that I don't like to talk about.

SY: How did you feel when redress happened, when you were able to...

YY: Well, I didn't get any of the money because my wife gave it to the grandkids. [Laughs]

SY: How lucky your grandchildren are.

YY: Yeah. [Laughs] I had, at the time we had four grandchildren, so they each, it was enough for the four of 'em we got.

SY: And did they know where that money came from, your grandchildren?

YY: I doubt it. 'Cause they weren't, they weren't that old when they got it.

SY: But your own kids knew, right?

YY: Yeah. Yeah.

SY: And they, did you celebrate, or did you...

YY: No, we went to dinner. I remember that. That's when my wife gave 'em the money.

SY: She didn't discuss it with you first?

YY: No. [Laughs] Well, she says that we're gonna give it to the kids. So that's what we did.

SY: And you were okay with it after?

YY: Yeah.

<End Segment 30> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 31>

SY: And so had camp not happened, do you think your life would've been much better?

YY: I don't know about much better, but it would've been much different. It would've been real different.

SY: What do you think you would've done, finished school?

YY: I would've finished school. And then my wife, she was a go-getter, so I wouldn't have met her. She was one that always liked to go out and see if she could make more money. [Laughs] So when we were living in Rosemead she comes, she says, "We're moving." I said, "Why?" Says, "I bought a place, seven unit apartment. We're gonna move there." And then we were living in that apartment for a while, and then she says, "You know," she says, "I found a place and it's only four hundred fifty thousand dollars." And I says, "Four hundred fifty thousand? That's almost half a million." And then those places were selling, like we paid only about a hundred thousand for that apartment, and she's talking about four hundred fifty thousand. I said, "Where're we gonna get the money?" So we finally bought it, but I don't know, if it wasn't for her we wouldn't be living like we were.

SY: So she kept you...

YY: Yeah, she kept us, she kept us with some money.

SY: And she never worked when you came back from...

YY: No, she worked. She went to work for, she went to work for the county too, and then she ended up working for the computer, what do they call it? Anyway, it was with the department that had all the computers.

SY: Tech, the technical?

YY: No, it was, what's another thing for computers? (Data processing.)

SY: [Laughs] I don't know. That's good. She retired from the county as well?

YY: Uh-huh.

SY: So you also mentioned that you were on the board of the JACS. Maybe you could talk a little bit about JACS and what, the work that JACS does?

YY: Well, I was asked to join by one of the fellows, one of the members there. He was at, it was because he was, wanted to retire from it and he wanted me to take his place. So they said okay, so I joined. And I met a lot of nice people. They were real nice people.

SY: And what kind of work does, it's Japanese American Community Services.

YY: Well, they give money to get started. They loan you money to get started, different organizations. Even like the Little Tokyo Service Center, we helped, JACS helped them get started. They give out, the old Shonien, you remember the Shonien?

SY: That's the orphanage.

YY: Yeah.

SY: That's how it started.

YY: That started, uh-huh. They got the money from there.

SY: And they continue to collect money from membership?

YY: Well, no, they don't collect money from the membership, but then they, they invest the money, they got a lot of money invested in different things. And they get money from that, and then they, I don't know if they did fundraising. I can't remember.

SY: So you served on that committee, or served on the board, for how long?

YY: About fifteen years, I think.

SY: And that was a religious, originally it was a religious based organization, right?

YY: Religious based? I don't think so. I don't know.

SY: Okay, so it didn't --

YY: I don't know. I'm sorry.

SY: Yeah, so you never stayed very religious through the years?

YY: No.

SY: I mean, after, just the Evergreen, that was your only experience. So in JACS, that was not an issue either, camp, talking about camp?

YY: No.

SY: No. You never, they never...

YY: No, it was mostly about different organizations that wanted money, that...

SY: Needed it.

YY: We would discuss about who we could loan it to and where we could get...

SY: So we're actually at the very end, we're running out of time. I just wanted, want to thank you for doing this. I mean, I maybe would like to ask if there's anything that you would like to say in terms of your life, having gone through camp, becoming, working for the county for so many years, and the work you're, you've done, what stands out or what we didn't talk about even?

YY: I don't think so. I don't think I, I've forgotten everything that I was, I'm supposed to say. At this age, I'm glad I'm still living. [Laughs] No, I don't think so.

SY: Any highlights of your life that...

YY: No. I was glad I was able to travel like I did. I went to quite a few different places, and I'm glad I was able to do it before I got to a, got to be like this where I can't...

SY: You're still playing golf, though, right?

YY: Right, yeah.

SY: That's, that's pretty active. Yeah, that's great. Well okay, thank you so much, Mr. Yamamoto.

YY: You're welcome.

SY: This has been a very enlightening discussion of what, of your life, and I appreciate you taking the time like this.

YY: Okay.

<End Segment 31> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.