<Begin Segment 7>

EO: And so the backtracking was this thing between the national ACLU and the San Francisco...

EB: Roger Baldwin and Norman Thomas? Norman Thomas was on our side. Norman Thomas was a socialist, as you know, not a communist, but a socialist. And a very decent person who expressed himself very well. He talked to the Commonwealth Club here in San Francisco. The national office, unfortunately, didn't take the position that Norman Thomas took, opposing the evacuation and detention. I'd say most of the people in the national office did support the exclusion but took a limited position that these people were entitled to hearings. Well, that's no way to treat a person born here. The individual should be treated the same as any other citizen. Anyway, Roger Baldwin didn't support -- excuse me -- my position or the board's position. And we were faced with being kicked out, but it never happened. And as I suggested before, Baldwin apologized for the position he had taken.

CO: Why do you think he took that position at that time?

EB: Well, I... you can readily say that he had a lot of friends in Washington. But he was a man who was a -- he was a bright man, very sharp man, spoke well. He, but he, he knew the president, he knew the members of the cabinet; they were all his friends. I, I can't say that they induced him to take this position; I merely point out the fact that he was, he was, when you went to Washington, you'd always contact him with, occasionally with Dr. Mickeljohn, Alexander Mickeljohn. But what influenced him is a tough question to answer.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1992, 2003 Densho and Emiko Omori. All Rights Reserved.