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SS: Well, I guess this was around June, must have been mid-June 1942. We were in Puyallup at that time. And one of my friends came to me and said, "There are a group of Issei who are planning to murder Sakamoto. What do you think of it? They want, they would like to have you join, join them." I said, "Well, just a minute, now. Sakamoto is in Area C. I'm in Area A. How can I participate in the murder of Sakamoto? Physically it's impossible." They said, "Well, don't worry about that. We'll take care of the actual killing." So they, and I said, "What do they want me to do as a part of their group?" And they said, "Well, we want you to be our spokesman. After we kill him, we're going to turn ourselves in. And we want somebody that will speak, defend us, on our behalf." And I said, "Well, let me think that over. I'll give you the answer tomorrow." So I went back and this, I did not tell my mother or anybody. This was totally secret. And the next morning he came over and said, "What's your decision?" And I said, "Well, you and I know that this camp is only temporary." I said, "Let's, I think any murder of Sakamoto ought to be postponed until after we've gotten to this new camp they're going to send us. And at that camp, we can try to, I would suggest that we talk with the administrators of that camp. And after that meeting, if the JACL continues to be the main advisor to the policies of the government," then I said, "I'll join you." And he said, "Well, that's sensible. I'll convey your reply to our group and see you later." Well, later he came back and said that they were willing to abide by that. So the whole thing was postponed until after we got to Minidoka.

So after we got to Minidoka, it was early in September, we found that there was no fuel and the temperatures had begun to drop. And in that, it's about a 3000-foot elevation there. And so it was getting bitterly cold in the mornings. Old people were beginning to complain, people with children and so forth were worried that the children would catch cold, etcetera. The... so we had, number one, there was a need for an immediate fuel supply to keep us from freezing to death in that camp. And number two was our wish to let the camp administrators know that we didn't think much of JACL leadership. And so we had a camp-wide meeting. We had asked that two men be sent from each, each camp, or each block. There were about forty blocks, something like that. To come to... we were in Block 36, so we had them come up to Block 36 to the mess hall one evening. And two people from each block showed up, two men, and we discussed what was, what we were planning to do. And they selected a group of about five or six men, I've forgotten the exact number, to be the spokesmen. And so, see, that might have been on a Friday or Saturday evening.

Anyway, the next, the next business day -- I guess it must have been a Monday -- those of us that had been appointed to represent the camp, we went together down to the administration building and asked to see Stafford, the head of the camp, and his main assistants there. And the three were there in their office, it was already Monday morning. And so they said, "Well, what assurance do we have in talking with you that you represent the people in the camp?" And we said, "Well, we have nothing concrete to show you but we have something to tell you that's very important. And I think it would be to your own interest to listen to what we have to say." And so they said, "Well, we're going to caucus." And so they went into another room and a few minutes they came back also, said, "All right. We will, we will talk with you." And in that, the two points were, the two points were, one, we needed fuel immediately. And the other was that if that, the JACL was acting without any proper authorization from us -- they'd been picked by the government -- that we, that if the... oh yes. And that serious trouble at Puyallup, the camp we were in before, had been postponed only because we were being put in this new, new camp. And I said, "If you people that run this camp follow the JACL advice like they did back in Puyallup, there's going to be very serious trouble." And the others of the group, except, let's see, except one guy, the guy who, that meeting had selected to be our official spokesman, who was, he was an Issei, the oldest guy there. And at that, at that preparatory meeting that we had before, why, he was shouting how he was going to tell these white administrators off and all that. And so we thought he meant what he said. Well, when we got up there, he started almost literally getting down on his hands and knees and licking their shoes. It was equivalent of that. Not a single strong word of protest or objection. So, I immediately got up and brushed him aside. And so did some others, two or three others got up and started speaking out on what we had come there for. The danger of continuing to use the JACL as the main source of advice. And fortunately, the... oh yes. And up until that time Sakamoto had been going up every morning to the administration building. But after that meeting, he was obviously told, "We don't, don't come up here." So his daily trip came to an end. We heard that from other people, that he was no longer going up. And probably because of that, Minidoka was the most peaceful camp of all ten.

EO: When you were, these plans were being made in Puyallup, was there that much hatred for the JACL?

SS: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. The Issei were just, they were just... they loathed the JACL so-called leaders. They held them in absolute and total contempt. They felt that they had been betrayed.

CO: Transferred over to Minidoka, too?

SS: Huh?

CO: In Minidoka also?

SS: Oh, yes. Well, the idea, the reputation of the JACL had well been established in the, at Puyallup, you see. And so when we had this gathering of two men from each, each block, that meeting in our block, there was not a single word of objection to what we were planning to do. I remember this friend of mine, he wrote a petition for the, to the Minidoka camp administrators. He wrote it in Japanese. And I translated it for him into English and at that meeting, his Japanese petition and my translation were both read to the group, both were approved, and those of us who were part of that delegation were all picked at that meeting. Every member of that del-, let's see, there was one fellow that might have been a Nisei, but if he was, he was an older one. I've never been sure as to whether he was a real Issei or whether he was an old Nisei.

EO: So, had you really contemplated participating?

SS: Oh, yes, oh, yes. I wasn't making an empty promise. I was, I was perfectly willing to get blood on my hands if necessary to get rid of a false leader for the Japanese community. Someone who had been appointed by the American government. We had nothing to do with the selection.

EO: 'Cause there was trouble in other camps, and the JACL seemed somewhat...

SS: Oh, yes. There was a lot of trouble in many of the other camps. The JACL, usually the JACL was the cause of it. But the Issei attitude was certainly far from humble submission to U.S. government dictation. They acted like human beings.

EO: Now, there was an incident in Minidoka where an old man was killed, shot...

CO: No, I don't think it was Minidoka.

SS: No, I don't think so. No, no.

CO: It was Topaz.

EO: Oh, Topaz. Yeah, it was Topaz.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 1992, 2003 Densho and Emiko Omori. All Rights Reserved.