Densho Digital Archive - Sally Shimako Nishimori Kitano Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

FK: Do you prefer that I call you Sally or Shimako?

SK: Shimako is fine.

FK: Shimako, why would you, is there a reason you'd rather be called Shimako rather than Sally?

SK: Well, I'll explain that to you later.

FK: Well, why don't you explain it to me now, and just let me know?

SK: Shimako Sally is my name, but after the war I changed it to, I went by Sally because it was a very American thing to do.

FK: And now you've chosen to go back to Shimako?

SK: So then, one of my classmates, Ray, Ray Lowry, told me, he says, "How come you changed your name?" And I told him, and he says, he says, "That always had such a beautiful, tinkling sound," and I said, "Oh, it did?" [Laughs] But he remembered me as Shimako since kindergarten, so...

FK: Okay. Well, tell me what you know about your parents.

SK: Okay, my parents were from Kyushu and they were, my dad was born in 1879 and my mother was born in 1889, and they probably lived about ten minutes away by car from each other. And so, anyway, my dad, my father came over in 1904 from Japan, and, of course, my mother came, my mother came over in 1915, and they were married as soon as she, they got off the dock and she, then they moved to Bainbridge Island and raised their family. But she, but they went to Alaska, thinking they might be able to do well there. But my brother was, my brother was... they had my brother about that time. And my mother said that's too dangerous of a place for him to live for him, so they moved back to Bainbridge Island and he went into strawberry farming and... strawberry and tomato farming. So then they lived over in Point White, Port Blakely area for quite a few years. And in 1929, they moved to our home in Winslow, and that's where I was born. My younger sister, who died at birth, was born there, too. And so that's my only home that I know of, on Bainbridge Island. And then, and my dad, I think, was a good farmer. He had leased, in 1941, I think he had quite a few acres, maybe close to 30 or 40 acres under berries, and he, and he did very well that year. And so my brother was, was quite pleased, and my sisters all thought, okay, now they can get away from the farm and go do their own thing. Well, of course, the war started and that ended everybody's dreams.

But, and then in February of '42, my father was taken by the FBI, they came and they took him only because they couldn't find the dynamite that my dad said he had, and he had used... the dynamite was for farming purposes, blowing up tree stumps, etcetera. And just before he left, I guess they finally found it, but they took him. And then he was sent to the immigration building in Seattle, and that was the first time I ever saw my dad behind bars. But he was sent to Missoula along with most of the, many of the islanders, and he was finally able to join us in Manzanar about three months later. But apparently, from what I gathered, was that some friend was very incensed over the fact that my dad was taken, and so they, so they were able to get a lawyer and he took, they got my dad squared away. And then when he was supposed to, when this friend said he was gonna pay the bill, the lawyer says, "No," he says, "You don't owe me anything." And so I thought that was very nice.

In camp, we went to Manzanar in '42, about, I guess we got there on April 1st, Fools Day. And, of course, everyone thought that that was the worst place anyone could be. To me, I was, because I was only nine years old, everyone, you know, I thought, "Oh, this is fun. I have all my neighbors across the street I could play with." But I, but Manzanar was a place called "Roastin', Toastin' and Dustin'." It was very warm, it was very dusty. And, and I weathered the storms, the windstorms that my dad, my dad then went to work on the farms there because that was his livelihood from before. And then my mother went to work in the kitchen. And so one of the, the one drawback on that was the fact that we never ate together as a family in the mess hall. And so I was always with my friends, and my mom and dad were doing whatever they had to do. And so that was kind of the breakup of the family in a sense.

But my, my sisters and my brother all left Manzanar when they found out that they can leave and go outside the restricted area, and they went to Chicago. And so by 1945, my mom and dad and I went to Chicago, and we stayed there for six months. My father decided he did not like Chicago, he was used to the good old Bainbridge Island weather, and so we came back. And of course that meant that my brother had to come back and help my father with the farming. And of course, that took away his livelihood in Chicago. My brother was quite, was quite intrigued with the television at that time, and he became a good repairman. And when he came to, came back to the island, he took that up again, and so he was, my brother, Tyke, was very well-known for his TV and radio work. And then finally, years later, he joined, my brother joined Mas and was one of their workers until he retired, I think. So anyway, and then, of course, my mother, my dad died in 1973 and my mother passed away in '78.

<Begin Segment 2>

FK: So you were about nine when you went to the concentration camps.

SK: I was nine when I went to camp.

FK: Do you remember anything before that time as far as growing up on the island?

SK: About Manzanar?

FK: No, about being, growing up on Bainbridge Island.

SK: Oh, about Bainbridge Island?

FK: You were born on the island?

SK: Yes. I was... I have some wonderful memories of... I had a big family and so they took care of whatever had to be done, and I was, I was always the one that got everything because I was the youngest. And I started school at MacDonald School in Port Blakely, and had, went to kindergarten there. And one of the, one of the funny experiences that happened that first day of school was that I had friends like Mae Terayama and Masa Kitayama, and they were, and they got on the bus and I said, "Okay, I'm going home on the same bus." Well, of course, I got on the wrong bus, and we got to Battle Point, and I said, I says, "This isn't my area." And the bus driver said, "Well, where do you live?" and I said, "In Winslow." And he says, and he teasingly said, "Where's Winslow?" and I panicked. And finally, I told them that, I said, "Well, I have a sister up at the high school, so he dropped me off at the high school. And Miss Allison, my, one of my sister's teachers, brought me home. So that was my first experience with school. I was in the, I went through kindergarten through fourth grade with many of my classmates that I graduated with eventually, and so we had some real good memories. I had a wonderful teacher in kindergarten and in the first few grades on Bainbridge Island.

It was, it was hard leaving the island, but because I was only nine, I said, "Oh boy, I get to get on the ferry and go to Seattle and get on a train." And the train ride was everything I expected, it was very nice. And of course, when we got to camp, it was very windy and dusty and we had to jump over trenches because they were still building the camp. But I, a lot of my,a couple of my classmates would write to me, and so I kept in touch with some of my friends. And then from there, we went... let's see, in camp, then most of our, most of the Bainbridge people left Manzanar to go to Minidoka, and my father said that he would not move again because he was tired of moving. So we stayed back in Manzanar and we met a lot of nice new friends that moved into the block. In fact, many of the people who moved into the block were bachelors from California and around, and they, they had lots of time on their hands and so they did a lot of woodworking projects. And they built some beautiful cabinets, and, I don't know, a variety of things. And they, and I know they made one for my mother, and I still have it -- it's sitting right by my bed. So that's, those are some good memories.

As far as camp, it was very, very difficult for my brother because he was the one in charge of the family. And he, he would never speak of his experiences there or from the time the war began. And I, of course, I was told that he didn't have good memories of that period because of the, of what happened. He then met and married Chiz Matsuno from Glendale and they went to Chicago. And then the rest of the family went one by one, as soon as they finished school or whatever. And so when the war, just before the war ended, my mom, my dad and I went to Chicago. And my dad hated Chicago because it was too hot and humid and not, and he just remembered Bainbridge Island so he insisted on coming back. So he came back within six months and enjoyed every bit of his life on Bainbridge Island.

<Begin Segment 3>

FK: You were only nine at that time, do you remember about the time the FBI came to the island to arrest --

SK: Who?

FK: When the FBI came to the island to arrest your dad, do you remember that day or how your family's reaction was at that day?

SK: I was home, I had just gotten home from school and I saw these big, two big black cars, shiny cars sitting in the driveway. So of course I was all excited wondering who was there. And I ran in the house and the first thing my mother said was, "Shh... don't say anything." And I said, "Why?" And she says, "The FBI are here." I said, "Oh." Well, they searched our house, they searched our 5 acres of farm, they searched the outhouse, they searched the strawberry shacks, everything, and of course, they didn't find anything. And then they asked, "Well, do you have any contraband?" And my, of course, my dad was being very honest and he said, "Well, I do have some dynamite, but I was, that was to be used for the farming," Well, they couldn't find it, and so they took him. But, and of course, that just devastated my brother, but he, but he took care of the family. It was, so we were very, I was very fortunate because I had the family to take care of me. I know some families where just the mother and the little kids were left. And but as I think back, I thought, "Gee, that must have been rough on the parents." But we had some wonderful friends on the island who immediately said, "Okay, we'll take care of your, your household goods," and they took care of our property. And so when the war was over, of course, we came back to our home. It was, it didn't look very good, but we, at least got our home back.

<Begin Segment 4>

FK: Who were the neighbors who take care of your farm when you were gone?

SK: What day...?

FK: Who were the neighbors that took care of your farm?

SK: Oh, the Frank Hydes, Frank Hydes over on Port Blakely, and the Vandolas who were next door to them, they took care of our property. The Hydes took care of our things. And then during the war, the Hydes sent many of our goods to us, and, and I think Mr. Grow took care of the family farm. So at least we got all our property back. And my dad started all over and we were very, very fortunate, 'cause we had such wonderful friends and neighbors. Of course, Bainbridge was known for, for the friendliness of all the people with the Japanese community because they were all next-door neighbors.

And so when the war ended and we came back, I was, I was very, very concerned about coming home because I said, "I wonder if I'll be accepted in high school." I was about thirteen when I came back and I was really frightened. But I went up to school and I signed in as Sally because I had to be very American and I didn't want to be known as Shimako anymore. Well, then along comes... and so the first day of school, Shannon Stafford and Ray Lowry, who were my classmates from kindergarten, they came up and they said, "Welcome back." And that just floored me, because I thought they weren't gonna, nobody was gonna accept me. But they did and they were very pleased that I was back. And the girls were very nice -- they, they helped me through, get me started through high school here. And the teachers were very, very nice. In fact, some of 'em, one of 'em tried very hard to see if she could help us. Well, we had, we had friends and neighbors who took care of us anyway, so we didn't have to have any of that. But I grant you, it wasn't easy for my dad to get started again. But one of the first, soon after we got back, then the Suyematsus came over to visit and to greet us and welcome us back. And they said, "We need some help on our farm picking strawberries and hoeing and doing whatever." And so my, so we were able to get a little bit of income from that. And so then of course every summer, I went to, I went to the Suyematsus and I picked all their berries for them. And that was, that was nice. I was able to earn a small income.

<Begin Segment 5>

FK: It sounded like your friends, your former classmates and stuff, helped you get back into the swing of things at school. During that time when you returned, did you face any discrimination or things that bothered you?

SK: The only thing that I remember was a couple of incidences. One of my neighbors up the street who was a good friend of mine had a birthday party, and she invited this other friend, but she says, "I can't invite you because you're Japanese." And I thought, oh, that was awful; I was very disappointed. The other thing, I thought, "Well, okay, I'm going to get into some of the activities for kids on the island." Well, I wanted to join the Girl Scouts -- I had been in the scouting program before the war -- and then so I went up and asked if I could get back into scouting and they said... I forgot what she said. She says, "Oh, I'm sorry, we've got too many in our group," or something to this effect. She made some kind of an excuse, and I thought, okay, that's too bad. So then I said, I asked the kids in the class, I said, "I wonder if I can join the Rainbow Girls," that was a Masonic group, but the girls used to do a variety of things and they used to have fun. And so I said, so I asked one of my classmates and she said, she asked her mother and her mother made some phone calls and then her mother was told by headquarters that no, I could not join.

So there were three incidents there. Other than that, I didn't run into any discrimination, really, on the island. I think, I guess there were a couple of things. I guess I couldn't go, I never got to go to any of the high school dances or things of this sort because of who I was, at least that's what I thought the problem was, but I don't know. So that's, as far as discrimination, no, I really didn't get into too much of that. And the islanders on the whole were very, very nice to us.

FK: You said that when your dad was taken away it was especially hard on your brother Tyke. Do you remember how he reacted or the rest of your sisters or you reacted when your father was arrested by the FBI, how you reacted to that?

SK: I was, I felt badly, but it was, it was my brother and my sisters that it hit the hardest, and I think it was my brother especially because he ended up being in charge of the family at a young age.

FK: He was about how old then?

SK: Huh?

FK: How old was he at that time?

SK: He was about... let's see, I was twelve, so he's fifteen years... about twenty-six, twenty-seven years old, so that was quite a burden on him. But he was, he tried very hard to, he did everything he could to help support the family before the war. But when the war hit, that just, that just hit him very hard. And I guess he was quite bitter about that whole situation.

<Begin Segment 6>

FK: Tell me a little about your time in Manzanar.

SK: My time in Manzanar? I had... of course, you were one of my neighbors. And so it was nice just being able to just go out the door and be with all my neighborhood kids. We used to play together. I was very, I was very unhappy over the fact that all my friends left, but I made some very, very good California friends. And to this day, I still have one friend who I communicate quite often with, and that's nice. Of course, we've, we've been able to keep in touch about the marriages, her marriage, our marriage, and the variety of things that go on in one's life. And so I just saw her about a year ago, and that was nice to get back together again. But I really haven't... my sister, my sister Mats kept in touch with most of the, most of her friends, 'cause she was older, she was, she was in her teen years at the time she was in camp. But it was, I think it was hard on the family in camp, but because you're there, you do what you have to do, and I was, I had... I didn't realize that everybody was going through all this trauma and I was the only one that said, "Oh, great, this is fun." But then my family was very good, they made sure that I had, they kept a lot of the problems away from me.

<Begin Segment 7>

FK: Some people say they can't remember the time when the notices were posted on the walls through the time of leaving for concentration camp. Do you remember the six or seven days before you went off to be taken away? Do you remember that period of time, and can you tell me about that?

SK: In what period?

FK: The time between the notice being posted on the 24th to leaving on the 30th. Do you remember that period of time?

SK: Oh, when we went to camp?

FK: Yes.

SK: I remember it quite clearly. It was, I don't remember what the family did as far as preparation. All I know is... well, I remember hearing the fact that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and then I remembered the time when we were told that we had to leave the island. And my mother and my sister had quite an argument. My mother said, said that we kids were Americans and so she said, "You should not have to go to camp." She says she and my dad were, were basically aliens and so they, yeah, they understood that they had to go, but she felt, my mother was very determined that we should not go, but then of course, we had to go, and so we all went. But it was, it was very difficult for the family, I think, and I was, again, it was very hard on my older brothers and sisters. And I, being a little kid and being protected from everything, I didn't think too much of it. I do know that I got to wear a purple dress and black patent leather shoes to get on the train.

And the soldiers on the train were wonderful, they were very, very nice. They were eighteen years old, young fellows, just gotten in the service, I believe, and they didn't know what was going on other than the fact that they were told to guard us. And so they were very, very nice to, they got involved in visiting with all of the people on the train, the older people. And I was told later that some of the, some of the islanders did correspond with the soldiers during the war, so that's how close they were. And of course when the, when we got to camp, the soldiers took one look at the place and they were just devastated, and they just, they were in tears when we had to say the good-byes. This is what I was told. But, so it must have been very traumatic for them to think that this is what happened to us.

And I guess, I guess the teachers, the teachers on the island were very unhappy over that whole situation, and they, I remember we were gathered into the principal's office, and she talked to us and told us she was sorry that we had to leave and so forth. But again, my experience with the, with the schools was very, very good -- they were wonderful people. So like I say, my experience was very different from the rest of the family.

FK: So, do you remember what you decided you wanted to take with you?

SK: I didn't decide.

FK: You didn't decide at all?

SK: I didn't decide. My, my sisters all decided. There was one thing that I had to leave behind, and that was a beautiful doll. And it was a brand new one I had gotten from Santa Claus, and I had to leave that behind. And I was very disappointed, but with only one suitcase that could be taken, I got to take a rag doll that my sister had made, and so that was the only thing, the only toy that I think I got to take with me. They were... but the funny part of it was when we came back to the island, my doll was still sitting on that sofa. So I've had it all through high school, I think, it was just sitting on my bed, but, so that was my, the one thing I loved so much as a kid.

FK: So, what was going through your mind when you were transported, you were transported by army truck, then, to the...

SK: Yeah, army trucks, yeah. It was, I saw these great big trucks there and we had a, there was a jeep there, also. And... no, it was a jeep there, and they took... well, maybe there was a truck, too, I don't know. I just know that I rode in the jeep and I sat right next to the soldier, and I had to, my legs were caught between the gear shifts and so forth. That's all I remember about that. But they were... I remember at the ferry dock, there were a lot of neighbors, school friends of my sisters and my brothers and all the other kids, and they were, they were all in tears over the fact that we were leaving. But other than that, that's, that's basically my only memory. The ferry ride over was nothing, nothing new. And the train, train ride was uneventful other than the fact that I got to sleep in a Pullman, in the Pullman coach and I got to have some nice meals. That's all I remember about that.

FK: Was there anything going through your mind as you were walking down that long road, down to the ferry?

SK: No, nothing, nothing especially. Like I say, the problem is I was a kid. You accepted what... I guess I was, I had to accept everything that my family told me to do. I had four, four older sisters and a brother, and they said, "Okay, this is what you do, period." So I never gave it much thought.

<Begin Segment 8>

FK: Did you have any feelings when you first saw Manzanar, when the bus first pulled up into the area?

SK: All I remember when I saw that place, I says, gee, it was bleak. It was nothing but sand and tarpaper buildings. I remember walking up, walking up from where they dropped us off on the bus, walking up to Block 3 and having to jump over trenches 'cause they were still in the process of building a lot of things there. And we saw the water pipes or the, whatever pipes there were. And then, of course, the dust storms just, one of the first things that happened was the dust storms and that was just awful. [Laughs] That was the only thing that I really didn't like about camp.

FK: How did you find the food or the facilities there?

SK: Oh, yes. They were, there were... we didn't have snakes come up between the boards, but some of our neighbors had snakes coming up through the floorboards, 'cause they were, the floorboards were about that far and so the small ones were... but we did see, that's the first time I ever saw these huge king snakes. I never ran into a rattlesnake, but I was told there were scorpions, and so we were, we were told to be very, very careful. And I used to see dead scorpions, but I never saw a live scorpion 'cause I didn't go play where they were. But there was, I guess one of the things they did after we got to camp was... of course, I saw the building when we walked in, and there were eight two-by-fours going across the ceiling, and then I saw one, one light and a bunch of windows. And of course, the wind, when it'd come up, the dust would just come right up into our house. And so everything was just coated with dust, and that I didn't like. Of course, there were seven of us, and so we had seven cots in the place, and we, my sisters all divided up the place -- for a place to sleep and a place to, kind of a living area. But that's kind of hard when you have seven people living, sleeping in one room together.

FK: How big was the room?

SK: There were seven of us, and we had about, I saw about eight beams going across so that was, that was for a family of eight, basically. I think that's what I was told. But those sandstorms were awful. [Laughs] I never liked them, and I had to... yeah, I remember we used to walk to school and having to fight that sandstorm. And at first, it was very close to our place. The recreation hall was our first schooling place, and we used to just sit on benches just to get school started. I don't think we learned anything, and that's where I... we were just starting into multiplication, division, those kinds of things in, here on the island. And I went there and of course, they just kind of covered things very so-so, so fourth grade was lost. And so I, so I know that my math was not good 'cause I didn't get to complete what I had on the island. And so then by the time I was in the seventh grade, then things were beginning to look better and they had some better teachers. But when I traveled to Chicago, I thought, "Oh boy, this is gonna be hard." But Chicago I found very, very easy and the teachers, the teachers were very good there. And then, of course, I was only there only for six months. And so I came back, of course, I came back to the island, and of course Bainbridge was so advanced, or so far ahead, I was totally lost. And thank heavens for some good teachers, they helped me through my English and my math, and I was able to complete all the courses that were required for college, so that made me feel good. But it took a while just to catch up. And I credit the teachers on Bainbridge Island who really, really helped me. And of course, the kids were, my classmates were very nice, and they did whatever they could for me.

FK: How do you feel that the concentration camp period affected the family unit or family life?

SK: Family life?

FK: Yeah, the family as a unit.

SK: Family life kind of got distorted in camp, mainly because the parents were working -- either in the kitchens or at something -- and then of course we had all our friends that we played with. So when it was time to go to lunch, we went to lunch with them. And then of course we'd continue playing right after lunch and my folks would come home later in the day, my mother especially. And my sisters were, took odd jobs, they were, my sister was, worked in the camouflage department. My brother became an electrician, and he enjoyed that. And then some of my sisters became housemaids for, for the camp personnel, and I think they, they earned, they earned about sixteen or nineteen dollars a month. You were sixteen dollars when you started and you ended up with nineteen dollars if you did very good.

FK: Tell me, tell me more about the camouflage department?

SK: The camp what?

FK: The camouflage department. Tell me what that was.

SK: I don't know anything about that other than the fact that my sister worked there and they made the camouflage things, and I just remember seeing pictures of it. I never got to go there. All I know is she worked there and at least she was making some money, and that's all I know. But my brother, my brother was one who enjoyed working with anything electrical. And he told us once that, he says, "When I got into the business of working with radio and television," he says, "it wasn't work, it was play." To him, that was the greatest thing he could have done. But anyway, he enjoyed his electrical work and then he, and of course, he went on to Chicago, and that's where he learned all about television at the time. So that was, when he came back to the island, he not only worked in with the, with the family farm, but he did some work with repair, repairmen and so forth.

<Begin Segment 9>

FK: It sounds like your family, your older siblings, were leaving kind of like one at a time from concentration camp. Was there a special thing they had to go through to leave concentration camp or was it just something they could just do?

FK: They had to have -- I read up on that -- but, and I do know that they were... they had to be sponsored by somebody outside of camp. And my sister Massie was, and her husband were sponsored first, and they became, my sister was a housemaid in Chicago, and then her husband went out and found a job, but he also did all of the maintenance work outside and so forth. And then once they were, once they were out there, then the rest of the family found it a little bit easier to go, to go to Chicago. And so then we ended up in, I think in the south side of Chicago, and we lived in a little tiny apartment. And my, and of course, my dad had, my dad went to work as a custodian, I don't know where, but he had to work at night. And of course, Chicago at that time was very, very cold. It was in the wintertime, and he decided he didn't like the cold, and he didn't like the heat. And that just, he was very, very determined he was going to come back to Bainbridge Island, and of course nobody wanted to come back because they were all settled in their jobs and so forth. And it was, so again, it was very difficult for my brother, but he, he came through and he came home and took care of the family.

FK: Now, as older people were leaving, the younger adults were leaving camp, how did that affect the camp as far as young men and young women leaving?

SK: I really don't know. I just... I think because I was too young to understand that, I just, I just remember when the Bainbridge people left, I was, I was devastated. And of course, some of the kids used to say, "Ha, ha, ha, we get to move and you don't get to." And of course, that didn't do well for me, but again, like I say, time and new people made the difference.

FK: Now, a time came when you were the only one left with your parents, is that true?

SK: Yes.

FK: And how was that for you?

SK: I, we had a lot of room in the house, of course. And I got to... it seemed like my mother was always after me making sure that I learned to do housecleaning and things of this sort, because that's the job of the women, you know, and I had to be responsible. But she, I felt that I had... school was fine, all my friends were, I had good friends. Of course, we used to fight, but we used to enjoy our times together. I think... one comment, well, we were, we decided that we wanted to have a party. There were about four or five girls in the block, we were all different ages, of course. One or two were younger than me, and then there were a couple that were several years older. So, but there were five of us, and so we decided one day that wanted to have a party. And so every day when we went to the mess hall to have our lunch, we would pick up the Kool-Aid, teaspoon of Kool-Aid and put it in a little container and bring it home. And so when we saved enough Kool-Aid, we said, "Okay, it's time for our party." And then we, I think we bought some Jell-O at the canteen or something. Anyway, we made the Jell-O and had it stored in the refrigerator at the mess hall. Well, one of the workers there said, "Oh, here's some Jell-O," and of course, she shared it with the people that worked there. So when we went to get our Jell-O, it was gone. We were devastated. [Laughs] And I remember all five of us were in tears over the fact that our Jell-O was taken away from us. And so when they heard about it, they promptly put something together for us, and so we had our nice party afterwards. But that was, that was the one... I remember that incident, and the traumas of youngsters.

<Begin Segment 10>

FK: When you think back on your time when you were in camp, what's your fondest memories about camp?

SK: My fondest memories? I think my friends were fun to be with... and then I had some, I had some good teachers. There was only one that I didn't care for, and I don't think... as I think about it today, I think she was not cut out to be a teacher, but she was a teacher, and she was just very mean. And the kids and... one of the students at the Sakai School asked if she hit us and we said no, I said, "No, she didn't hit us, but she was very verbally abusive." And I remember one day, the teacher walked out of the classroom and the superintendent of schools was there, outside, talking to her. She came back in and she was in tears because I think... I don't know for sure, but I think that she was scolded for the way she was treating us. I don't know, but it was, I just remember that, and I said, "Oh, it's about time somebody got after her." [Laughs] But I, of course, I was one of those very meek, mild individuals. I never got my myself into trouble at school, I didn't dare. But I just remembered, she was the only teacher I really disliked. And in all my years of schooling, I've had fairly good teachers, and, but I've never had anyone like her before or after. And so that was the only... I guess that was the one thing that I wasn't very happy about in that fifth grade situation. But school was not, school was not too hard for me, except when it came to certain things and I didn't know about and I'd have to go, I'd have to go ask Pauline Nakata. I said, "Pauline, how do you do, how do you do this math?" it was algebra or something, I forgot. Anyway, and she would help me through. Because all my sisters, everybody was gone, so nobody to help me. But I remember Pauline Nakata was there to help me, and I would see Jerry Nakata around. But other than that, yeah, Pauline was a wonderful helper. [Laugh]

FK: If you had to pick your worst memories about camp, what would that be?

SK: I'm sorry?

FK: If you had to pick the worst memory you had of camp, what would that be?

SK: My worst memories were the dust storms, and the fact that all the Bainbridge people, most of the Bainbridge people left me. Other than that, I, my experiences were pretty good there. And the, as far as the, as far as schooling and everything, things just went along. Of course, I was very naive, too, but things came along quite well, just a couple of incidences that I wasn't happy about. But on the most part, there was... and of course Manzanar had the most, it was a very barren place when we first got there. But the people decided we needed flowers, we needed a lawn, we needed trees, and we had, and so all those things came up. And it turned out to be a very nice place as far as, as the looks. And then, of course, the Sierra Nevadas stood out for us, and that was just beautiful. We used to see it every day in a different light, just as we see Mount Rainier here. So, yeah, that was... I didn't have too many bad, bad experiences in camp, 'cause I was, of course, I was still a kid.

<Begin Segment 11>

FK: Do you feel that that experience at that period of time affected Japanese Americans psychologically in some way?

SK: Oh, yes. It affected my brother and my sisters, I think. But they... yeah, it affected them and then, of course, they, they didn't get to go get an education that they wanted so badly. And so I think that was, that was very hard for them and they had to, they had to make do with what they had. And... so I really felt for them, because they didn't get to get the dreams, the "American Dream."And so when the war was over, of course, and I finished high school on Bainbridge Island, my family was very determined that I get a college education. And they, everybody pitched in and helped me through. So they were very, very determined that I was able to get something, and I really appreciated that. Because everybody backed me up, in more ways than one. Most of them were very poor at the time, but they, they did what they could to help me. And so I was, like I say, I was very, very fortunate.

FK: What effect, if any, did it, do you feel like it had on you as far as your outlook on life or any of those things?

SK: I didn't... I used to talk about that when I started teaching because I said, you know, I knew that was, that was a real mistake by the government. And I tried talking about it and of course, in those days, people would not talk about that period of time. And so then I remember one teacher, I was talking to her about it and she says, "I don't want to, I don't want you to talk about that." And I said, oh, so I was... after that I was very, very careful of what I said. But she was just, she just, she just thought that was... I don't know why she, but she was an army nurse, so maybe that's why she was affected, I don't know. But I know she was just, she just got mad at me and she said, "I don't want you to talk about that at all," very belligerent about that. And I says, "Okay." [Laughs] But like I say, the family didn't talk too much about that whole period, and think I understand why now, but at the time, I didn't.

FK: Why do you think they didn't talk about that?

SK: What was I thinking at the time?

FK: No, why do you think your family didn't talk about it?

SK: They, I think they were... I don't know. I think they were... I don't know. I think they, my brother was, my brother was very bitter, or not very happy about that whole situation. My sisters, we'd talk about a few things at home, but nothing outside. And I know the, I know my... okay, I know my sister and my brother were called "Japs" by some of their classmates or something, and my brother was so upset he just picked this fellow up and he just dumped him on the floor. [Laughs] He says, "Don't you dare say that again." And my sister, of course, she saw that whole episode and somebody said something to her and she just said, "Okay, you call me a 'Jap,'" she says, "you're a" -- and mentioned some unmentionable words, you know. But she says, "I'll never"... she was not very happy about that individual. But on the most part, people were, they were just, like I say, there's always one or two in the crowd who will do things. But again, I think most of the people on the island were so good, they were wonderful people. And I think that's why when I, like I say, when I graduated I was very happy to be with my classmates again. They were so good to me, and I really appreciated that.

[Interruption]

FK: Well, I was asking how do you pick and choose who you're gonna talk to when there are some people who want to shut you off and so forth?

SK: I think I... when we were asked to pick a topic to write about for our report, I brought those things up. And then over the years, then people started asking questions, and they said, "Oh, you went to camp and you were..." you know. And so then I tell them, and of course I was able to talk about it in, when I was teaching, which I made sure I mentioned it to the kids. And even though I was... let's see, I taught third or fourth grade there for a while, and then I taught, then I ended up in kindergarten. But kindergarten, you just didn't get into a lot of the political things and the things went on. And I just didn't have that opportunity, but I did, I was able to speak out at teachers' groups and things of this sort. But it was, but that was the, like I said, there was only one teacher who was very upset with me because I even brought the subject up. But over the years, and then of course as time went on, the JACL and people started getting into that whole episode and so then people, of course, would start asking questions. And so I'd try to tell them what I knew, but of course, some people would, like I know some of the older folks' friends refused to talk about it only because it was, it was a very hard experience for them. I think a lot of it was because I was a kid and I didn't have the trauma of that, and so to me, as I learned things, I said, "Oh my gosh, this was awful." That as an American, our rights were taken away and so forth, and so I, so I really, every chance I got I got into that topic, of course, when it was appropriate. But like I say, I was very careful of who I spoke to. You kind of learn how to handle different situations as you grow older. [Laughs]

FK: How does that make you feel inside when someone either rejects what you're saying or says it's not true?

SK: Well, I suppose I could call them names and everything else, but I just decided I better keep my mouth shut, and I said, well, that's... okay, so you don't want to talk about it, that's fine. You learn when to say things and when not to say things. Then I, of course, I'm the kind, I'm always told in the family that I'm the one that always opens my mouth first before I think. [Laughs] So anyway, it was, so like I say, I am a little cautious, and I try to bring it up at the appropriate time.

<Begin Segment 12>

FK: In 1988, the government signed a reparations act for us and gave each person that was in a concentration camp $20,000. What are your feelings about that?

SK: Oh, that was wonderful, that was a good... I was very pleased about that. And I just... but at the same time, I said it was too late for my parents. My parents were the ones that suffered through that whole episode, and I know my mother and my dad, my mother especially, wanted to go back to Japan so badly, but she, she just couldn't. Because she wanted to go visit her relatives, and she had kept -- my mother was the one that kept in contact with all the relatives in Japan because she knew that they were in need. They were, war was hard on them. And so she did everything she could to, to send them money, send them whatever she could. And, but she said, "Oh, I'd just love to go back to see the, to see the family property over there." And she never got to, and of course, so when she passed away and then the money came through, I said, "Tom," I says, "this is the first thing we're gonna do is go to Japan." Because I says I wanted to go to visit the relatives and I wanted to tell them how much my mother wanted to see them. And so that's what I used my money to because it was something that was, was important to my mother. And of course, my dad was, my dad was the one who always said, "Well, I came to America and this is where I live." And he had no thoughts of really going back. And of course, by the time they were able to, my dad was not well, and so they never did go. So I, that was the one way I used my money. I don't know what the rest of the family did with theirs, but I was, and I think those days were, they were just finally coming out of, out of being so poor, and they were able to finally get ahead. 'Cause I think by 1988, yes, they were, they were doing all right, their kids were out of school and so forth. But I was very, very determined that I was gonna go back. And I know my sisters and my brothers all did go back, too, so that was nice. And the relatives were just, the relatives were so pleased.

FK: Do you have any children?

SK: Huh?

FK: Do you have any children?

SK: I have... okay, Tom and I were married in 1956, after Tom had gotten out of the service. And we had three children: Nancy, Paul and Patty, and they all finished college, finished the university. And they all went into engineering, different fields of engineering. And they, so they've enjoyed a very happy life in their jobs. And Nancy's still in the field of engineering in Bellevue, and then Patty and Paul, Patty quit her job because she wanted to work with her husband and -- her husband's a, in construction, and so she went into real estate right there in Colorado. And then my son said the high tech business was too much so he quit, and I'm not quite sure what he's doing but he's, he's enjoying life. And so we get to see the kids often enough.

FK: Have you talked to them about -- your husband and you -- have you talked to them about your experiences?

SK: Oh, yes, they've asked. And I think my kids, Nancy wrote quite a, did quite a paper on that, and I thought she did very well. Patty and Paul, they understood what was going on, we did, we did take them to... we showed them camp. But it seems like they were always so busy that they didn't get to do too much with us as far as going to those places. And really, I really wanted to get into it, but they... I don't know, the kids' schedules and our schedules were very different [Laughs] But they're, they're very happy with what they're doing and we're just real pleased that they made it.

<Begin Segment 13>

FK: How important do you feel that it is for future generations to know about the concentration camp period? How important do you think that is?

SK: How important do I feel it is? I think the... it isn't so much about the camp itself, I think it's more about the rights of an American and the rights of anyone. And I think that that's one of my big reasons why I speak out on it when the time is appropriate. And it's very interesting that there's a lot of people who still don't know that this went on. And when they talk and then they, they says, "You mean that happened, and you were one of them?" Of course, then they'll start questioning me. But I feel very strongly about the fact that that should be, that should be a topic that should be brought up in their history classes. But I, and I think that Bainbridge is doing a very good job on that. I did that, I did some of that in Highline where I taught, but there weren't too many of us, too many of us out there in Highline, but they, I did a few things. And then I know in Puyallup I haven't been able to contact anyone really. I tried a couple of places, but I... and then of course, I got very busy with my own life. But I said one of these days, I'll bring it up again. [Laughs]

FK: So what relevance do you think it has right now to our children who are gonna be adults in the future?

SK: How will it affect the...

FK: Yeah, learning about the internment of Japanese Americans?

SK: I think it's very important that they know that this happened. And I would like to see, make sure that they are aware enough to that, that this can happen again. And you see so many things happening today that saying okay, kids, you better... I think the kids should be educated on that topic. Not so much of our... basically, it's the fact that we have, we have our rights and we have our obligation to keep those rights going.

FK: We're going to be building this memorial at that site in Eagledale where we left. What would you like that memorial to say to people?

SK: What would I like them to say about it?

FK: What would you like to have them leave with when they, after they leave the memorial?

SK: I think we would like to say that democracy is a very fragile thing, and I think that we need to constantly keep aware of what's right and what's wrong in our country, and what we need to keep working on. And I think there are still a lot of people out there who don't know too much about what happened and what's even happening today. I mean, there are so many things that you see affecting your immigrants and so forth, and I just hope that... yeah, I think that that would help. I'm glad, I'm glad the memorial is out there, and the one in, the one down in California. And I think there's something back in D.C. that we saw, too. So that was... so when we walked through some of those places, and people are discussing and I, they overhear us discussing it, and they say, "You mean you were involved with that?" and they start asking questions.

FK: As we continue to work on the memorial and other things that we do here as a community, do you have any advice you'd give us or any things you'd tell us that we should be doing?

SK: I think you guys are doing a good job. [Laughs] I don't know, I didn't think that far enough ahead, but I think that you guys are doing a very good job here on the island. And I wish others would, I wish they would do something. Not necessarily put up a memorial, but at least keep it, keep the information out there, so that we Americans will be a little bit wiser and think twice before we do anything like that again.

FK: We've covered a lot of things, are there any things you want to... are there any other things you want to cover or any other things you want to say?

SK: Not really. I just, I just appreciate the fact that you're, you're doing this to get the information out to people and for future generations. And there's... a lot of us are on our way out the door, now. [Laughs] We're getting a little bit older... and forgetful. [Laughs]

FK: Well, I think you did pretty well, myself. Okay, thank you.

SK: You're welcome.