Densho Digital Archive - Roy Matsumoto Interview (denshovh-mroy

<Begin Segment 11>

JD: More detail, how you would sneak down at night to hear the, what the Japanese were talking about. Can you tell us a little more about that and how you heard about that?

RM: Well, when... then, before I decided to go down, even though I won't do that, what it did was I took a helmet and took a belt off and left weapon aside, and stripped myself off, except I carried two hand grenades, each pocket. Then crawled down, which way to go down. Daytime I just remember my memory time, then when it get dark, they have no streetlight in the jungle, so total dark unless the moonlight, but otherwise, dark in the woods there. So I know exactly where they are, they'll come back. So I told -- this happened to be Ed Kohler, but some other people, too. Anyway, his name was Ed Kohler, and I told him, "Don't shoot."

[Interruption]

JD: All right, start again, where you're going to go down and listen to the Japanese.

RM: Yeah, go down there and first hear is just like we talk. Just nothing to do with military intelligence, they just talk of family things. And since they're talking to each other, some of... so happened that the enemy were 18th Division from Kurume in Fukuoka Prefecture. And in Japan, the people around there all go to division where headquarters is located. For instance, Hiroshima goes to 5th Division and Kumamoto goes, I mean, Kumamoto goes 6th Division, and Kurume happened to be 18th Division. And Sendai happened to be 2nd Division. I remember all of that because I studied the military education in Japan. But anyway, in the United States, I'm from California, drafted, I may serve, take training in maybe New York, or Texas, or like Camp Robinson, Arkansas, or could be in same state, Fort Ord or whatever. But in Japan, people, inductee were all from same area, so they speak the same dialect. So they used their same dialect and talking about, mix their standard Japanese. Everybody goes to Japanese school, so they know Japanese, standard Japanese, but they mixed in their local dialect. And I happened to be able to understand their talking. Of course, I don't speak the dialect, but I understood what they're saying, and they're talking about, says, "Well, poor wife, have to work in the field, and don't know how they're doing, crop going, who's going to help harvesting," things like that they talk about. Just like we talk about, "What do you do when you get out of the service?" Well, may raise a certain kind of chicken or whatever. Nothing to do with military intelligence. But then they're talking about, well, tomorrow morning's attack. That means they're going to plan an attack, because they knew, then they know, come around there and give me instructions what to do. So that's the military intelligence, they're going to attack us. Then it's a dawn attack, I know. Myouchou, early, myouchou means "tomorrow morning."

And I knew all those Japanese words, so I understand it. But some people didn't... well, all of them went, graduate from their language school, got the diploma, and they're supposed to be able to do that, but they didn't learn any dialect. And fortunately, I'm not from Kyushu, so normally I wouldn't understand, but fortunately I was working in a grocery store as I mentioned before, so I picked up a little. I don't know whether I mentioned before or not, but when I go out to deliver the goods to the farmers, and husband and wife were talking some strange dialect I wouldn't know, so I asked them, "What does it mean in standard Japanese?" So they tell me, so I made a memo out of it, then remembered. The next time I had a chance to use that word, instead of using standard Japanese, use that word, and they get a kick out of it even though I'm not from that area. The reason have done is when, as I mentioned before, I grew up with my grandfather and go fishing there. But what he did was, like I told you before, he made a little money sifting [inaudible], and he made a little money to be able to retire. Before fifty he retired. The reason went Japan is he left his wife in Japan as I told you before with his two kids. His hobby is fish because he helped his elder brother and he learned fishing, so he know how to do it. But he's more than fifty years old, so his fingers not sensitive as mine. Mine are a young kid. So when the fish is nibbling, I could tell. But he doesn't know until he's hooked. So he liked to take me there and I catch more fish than my grandfather. But anyway, when you're doing it, either going or coming fishing, nothing else to do, so he'd tell me all kind of story he knows. History and geography. So amazing, I know all the name of the old country name for the prefectures. My wife is college graduate and I'm only high school, but I know more than her because Grandfather told me old history and geography.

JD: Can we jump back to Nhpum Ga and when you're overhearing the Japanese soldiers talking, you said that you took grenades with you.

RM: Yeah, well, one grenade. If I get killed, that's the end of it, but, see, I don't want to be tortured and captured. And being a Japanese descent, they consider me as a traitor because I was, went to school. Told me I'd be loyal to the emperor. Hell, no, I'm an American, but they don't think that way. They think a traitor, and they torture me. So I don't want to get captured, so they throw one for them and one for me instead of captured. I hoped things didn't happen, but just in case, I don't want to be tortured. And I know, before that, in Japan, talking about what they did at the Russo-Japanese War and the Chinese things, and they did what they do, they torture 'em instead of capturing 'em.

JD: Yeah, that makes sense. And when you were sneaking down at night, how close could you get to where they were talking? Could you get pretty close?

RM: Pretty close, just like me. Only thing is bush there, so I couldn't... this is the hard part. You know what is the hard part? The hard part is you cannot cough, sneeze, could hear. So that's the hard part is listening, at the time I was young, and right now my hearing's a little weak, and then eyesight, but at the time, I could hear well. And then also nearby, and I could pick up anything they say, then understood. Whereas other people, sure, if it's standard Japanese, of course understand. But they didn't understand, because we learn a particular dialect. But so happened that their folks came from a certain area, and their area is the dialect they understand. Like Hiroshima, a lot of people, immigrant from Hiroshima, so Hiroshima dialect is very common, lot of people knows about it. But this happened to be Kurume. But me, myself, don't learn, but the people from the 2nd Battalion, I mean, the division in Sendai, hardly anybody understand except their own people, Sendai.

JD: That sounds, the language ability was very useful in Burma. We'd like to perhaps talk a little more about your military intelligence activities using that language ability in, later you were, for example, you were interrogating soldiers after the war. Can you tell us some more about that?

RM: Well, I never thought of that, but since you mentioned, I think they should teach where the enemy is, such as their custom and language should be taught.