Densho Digital Archive - Tadashi Sakuma Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

GS: This is an interview with Tad Tadashi Sakuma on August 5th at 12 o'clock. This interview will be about his experiences coming to the United States and going to the internment camp and some of his thoughts from that. Dad, what were the names of your parents?

TS: My mother's name was Setsuyo Hamasaki, and my father's name is Otokichi Sakuma.

GS: And where were they born?

TS: They were born in Japan. You need to know the town they come from?

GS: If you remember the town.

TS: My mother came from Hatsukaichi and my father was Kusatsu-machi.

GS: And when and where did they come to the United States?

TS: I have no idea. They never talked about it.

GS: When did you come to the United States?

TS: I came to the United States when I was eleven years old, and 1924, May of 1924.

GS: Do you remember your early childhood in Japan and where you lived?

TS: Well, I do remember a few things but, I don't know if I... when you first start to grade school, that's more or less, that's my first recollection, my grandfather took me to a grade, to go to school. That was the first time I could kind of memorize in my mind.

GS: So you lived with your grandparents?

TS: Yeah, I lived with my grandparents in Hatsukaichi for, 'til I was through third grade.

GS: And what brought you to Bainbridge Island?

TS: Well, I came to work. Because I just came back from Japan, recently, so I didn't have a job, so I took this job.

GS: And what year was that?

TS: Let me see, that was in 1941, 1941.

GS: So from 1920s, early 1920s to 1941, you were living in Seattle?

TS: Yeah, I was living in Seattle.

<Begin Segment 2>

GS: And what was life like on Bainbridge Island? Where did you live?

TS: Well, I lived with a family that I worked for. They wanted me to stay there. And it would be more convenient for them and for me too. So I stayed with this family on Pleasant Beach.

GS: What was the family's name?

TS: Herber, John Herber family.

GS: And they still live on the island?

TS: No, I think one of the boys lives there now.

GS: What did you do for the Herbers?

TS: Well, I did chauffeuring, because this man was a businessperson that traveled quite a bit so he needed to go in and out, you know, take it to the ferry, and I pick him up again. He might be gone for a week or so, so he wanted me to stay in the family house with the family.

GS: And then you chauffeured...

TS: Yeah, I only chauffeured the lady of the house, because she wasn't able to drive that time. Although later on I taught her how to drive so she could do that herself, eventually.

GS: And where did you normally drive her to?

TS: Well, to the grocery store, mostly. And I used to take the boys to take a piano lessons, one of the boys was taking piano lessons so I took him to a private house, and took him over and bring him home, you know.

GS: And where was the grocery store?

TS: Grocery store was Bainbridge Gardens and also the Lynwood Center.

GS: Do you remember any other things that happened during that time, community events that you attended or anything?

TS: Well, sometime, I don't have too much to do, and I used to help the gardener. There was a man who was putting in landscaping there, in that place, and he needed sometime another hand to help him out so I gave him, helped him out doing some of the things for him, otherwise, there wasn't too much to do. I thought I might learn something from him, doing, yeah.

GS: And what did you do on your days off?

TS: Well, I used to take a walk towards Point White and different places, short distance, you know, I used to take a walk, because I never had any chance to find out what people were doing and so forth.

GS: And did you see other Japanese on the island?

TS: Only place I remember was a family that had a greenhouse, Lynwood Center, there off of Lynwood Center, there was a greenhouse. I can't remember his name, but he had a greenhouse and then, that's about the only place I kind of visited.

<Begin Segment 3>

GS: December 7, 1942 is Pearl Harbor.

Off camera: That's wrong, it's 1941.

GS: Oh, it is 1941, you're right. December 7, 1941, was Pearl Harbor Day. What do you remember doing on that day?

TS: Well, I was taking the ferry to Seattle to visit my friend that morning. I didn't know there was anything going on until I got to his house. And he was listening to a radio and he told me what had happened.

GS: And were you treated differently on the ferry by other people?

TS: No, no, there was nothing unusual at all, it was just the usual. I just came home on the ferry and took the bus back to the house.

GS: During that time, there were FBI roundups of Japanese during that time. Do you remember any of those roundups?

TS: No, no, no, I...

GS: And at that time, shortly thereafter, there was an Exclusion Order Number 1. Do you remember anything about that order which ordered you to leave the island?

TS: Well, I don't remember too well because I wasn't in contact with Japanese people on the island, so you might say my future wife, she told me about it, and that's about it.

GS: What were your memories about preparing to leave to go to, in this case, Manzanar?

TS: Well, I don't remember too much except that it was kind of a sad looking bunch of people that came down from, they were the visitors for the people leaving and they were having little conversations, quietly.

GS: And do you remember your future wife's family, the Kobas, did they have land at that time, or a house that they had to make arrangements for?

TS: Yeah, they arranged to have a Filipino family to take care of the house and the farm for them while they were gone.

<Begin Segment 4>

GS: And your memory at the ferry dock on March 30, 1942, do you remember anything about that time?

TS: Well, only thing I could say, it wasn't a very pleasant scene at all because everybody was kind of, you might say very sad about it, very quiet, and I was very... I think, didn't feel too good myself, because although I didn't know too many people there that came down to say goodbye.

GS: And then you went on a ferry and then you went on a train, and then by train you went by bus to Manzanar.

TS: That's right.

GS: Do you remember the first time you entered the gates there at Manzanar, what it was like?

TS: Well, it was a very kind of desolate place, you know, out in the desert, you might say a desert with a little barrack and they had a barbed wire fence around it so they, it wasn't, it didn't look very, shall I say, inviting at all.

GS: And when you arrived, you were assigned to a barracks. Do you remember what barracks number that was?

TS: I think it was Barracks 3 but that's about the only thing I could, Barracks 3, is all I could remember.

GS: That was real close to the entrance because you were one of the first groups to arrive?

TS: Yeah.

GS: How was the day to day life in that camp compared to what it was like at the Herbers'.

TS: Well, they want you to do some kind of work for them, for the government, you know, to take care of the place. I wanted to be the carpenter, but that was all filled up so I took a job as a plumber helper and I begin to learn what the plumbing was. I wasn't too sure what really involved.

GS: And you worked as a plumber helper five days a week?

TS: Yeah, that's right.

GS: So you had a couple days where you could just relax?

TS: That's right.

GS: What did you do during those days?

TS: Well, there isn't much to do, you know. Until the boys begin to form a baseball team and that's when we started to have a little bit of game off and on, when the boys get together.

GS: And shortly after arriving at Manzanar, you married your wife.

TS: That's right. We were the second couple to get married there. We were married by the Methodist minister who came from nearby little town and married us just in our barrack. And we had a reception down by, you might say, they had a big store there and they opened up that place to have a reception.

GS: During that time you were there, did you read or get any copies of the Bainbridge Review? Did you hear about it?

TS: No, I didn't know there was a Review paper at all, 'til we got back later on to the Bainbridge Island.

GS: Then in 1943, your son, older son David was born.

TS: Yeah.

GS: Was there a hospital that he was...

TS: Yeah, they did have a facility for that. And they had a competent doctor and a nurse and so forth.

GS: Did you hear of any stories of people sneaking out of camp going fishing up in the Sierra Nevadas?

TS: No.

GS: There was a "loyalty oath" questionnaire that came out during that time at Manzanar. Do you remember filling out that "loyalty questionnaire"?

TS: No, I didn't because, the reason is because I was never a citizen.

GS: So only citizens, U.S. citizens could fill out that questionnaire?

TS: Well, I suppose. That's what they wanted, I think.

<Begin Segment 5>

GS: Then in 1943 or '44, you were relocated to Minidoka. It was late '43?

TS: Yeah, right.

GS: Do you remember how you got up from Manzanar to Minidoka?

TS: Well, by train.

GS: And what was the camp like at Minidoka when you arrived?

TS: Well, Minidoka was more, you might say, very pleasant for me, because I knew lot of people there from Seattle that was interned there.

GS: So you were and the family were kind of latecomers to Minidoka?

TS: Yeah, that's right.

GS: And your second son was born, myself, was born there in February.

TS: That's right, yeah.

GS: What did you do at the camp? What were your duties in Minidoka?

TS: I was working in a carpenter shop making things... when they needed some benches or table, we used to make those.

GS: And there were some stories that the local farmers needed help harvesting sugar beets and potatoes. Did you participate in that?

TS: No, I didn't. I wasn't interested in farming, so I didn't go. I found a job, a construction company in Twin Falls. They needed labor, so I worked for them.

GS: So you were able to leave Minidoka, the camp, during the day to go work at your job and then you had to come back at night.

TS: Yeah, I used to go week at a time, and come back at the weekend.

GS: And were there soldiers that escorted you there?

TS: No, they just take a bus and get out to Twin Falls and then, you know.

<Begin Segment 6>

GS: When did your family and the Kobas decide to move to Moses Lake?

TS: Well, we decided to move because I thought maybe I might make, while over there, we might able to earn some money doing work for the farm, and I felt it would be more of a family for the boys, the children and so forth.

GS: So the Koba brothers sharecropped potatoes and onions.

TS: More, that's right.

GS: And what did you do in Moses Lake?

TS: Well, I was helping them, because they had a Mexican labor for the harvest time, especially, so I used to take equipment and water for them to work with, you see. That was more my job to see that they have adequate water and you know, other equipment that needed to be done.

GS: Did you work anywhere else in Moses Lake?

TS: Well, in the fall, after the harvest, I used to work across the road from where we used to live. And there was a turkey farm so I worked for them during the, before the Thanksgiving and so forth.

GS: And your wife, did she have other duties?

TS: No, she did housework. She was, you might say she was a cook. She cooked for the boys, her brothers and her father was there too, you see.

GS: And there were other Japanese families there at Moses Lake?

TS: That's right. Harui family and Shibayama family, they were neighbors

GS: And when did you decide to leave Moses Lake to return to Bainbridge Island?

TS: Well, when the war was over, incidentally, Nakata family relocated to Moses Lake too. So we decided let's go back together and see how it is. And we moved back to the island. The Nakata family had a house, but I didn't have a house. But we had to buy a house, you might say, and so we moved back together in November of 1945.

GS: And where was that house on the island?

TS: It's on Madison Avenue, where I live.

GS: But not the same house.

TS: No, we decided to, after a while, that house was very difficult to fix, so we decided to build behind it and tear the old house down.

GS: When you were in Moses Lake, did you have any dealings with the local people there other than...

TS: No, I didn't because I wasn't in business. I think the Koba boys had quite a bit of business with the Hanson family. They were very able to help them too.

<Begin Segment 7>

GS: How was life on Bainbridge Island after the war, compared to before you went to camp?

TS: Well, not much different. I cannot think that... I'm not too sure, but there was not much of a problem, I heard.

GS: And what did you do when you returned? What kind of job or work did you do?

TS: Well, I decided to work in town, in Seattle, but it was kind of difficult for me to travel back and forth. But you might say I have a good friend who said, "If you know a little bit of gardening, why don't you start a business of your own?" So I was talking with a lady up in the Agate Pass area. She said, "Yeah, I need a gardener. Why don't you come and help me?" That's how I started doing it.

GS: And what was the name of that lady?

TS: The lady's name was Mariner. She was a school board member, and she was very helpful for me.

GS: And shortly thereafter, you had another son born?

TS: Yeah, about seven years after the boy was born in Minidoka, the youngest one, I had.

GS: And his name was?

TS: His name was Dwight.

GS: What did your wife do during that time?

TS: Well, she was able to, my youngest boy was able to move around and be, I think was around five years old, four or five years old. She decided to go back and work for a grocery company because she always worked in a grocery store before. So she said, "I think I'll take a job." So she went back to work.

GS: So she worked at Bainbridge Gardens before the war?

TS: She worked for Bainbridge Gardens for years. She more or less managed that place so she went back to work for Anderson Company.

GS: And that was on Winslow Way?

TS: Yeah, Winslow Way. Right.

GS: After Anderson grocery store closed, where did she work?

TS: Yeah, she worked for Town and Country. John Nakata and Mo Nakata boys and Loverich family, started a grocery store, which is now Town and Country.

GS: How do you feel about what happened to you before the war, being sent to a relocation center?

TS: Well, it wasn't a very pleasant thing to be in, but especially, my point, what could I do? Because I was more of an alien, no citizenship, so I wasn't able to become a citizen anyway, so I do what the people, the government had to tell you what to do.

GS: Now you had a brother that was also born in the United States?

TS: He was born in the United States. So he, before the war started, he was drafted in the army. And he served in the European Theater area during the war.

GS: But he wasn't assigned to the 442nd because he was with the regular army.

TS: Yeah, he was with the regular, I guess, infantry, I guess, although he was on a...

GS: He was a paratrooper.

TS: Paratrooper, yeah.

GS: So after the war, he left the service, and...

TS: He was wounded in Europe so he came back and he got back and he moved down to L.A. area where his friend lived and he had a job there.

GS: And you remember when he died?

TS: Well, he died kind of early, you might say. I can't remember the date. He had an accident, industrial accident you might say, so he had a very fatal, he died I think in the '50s.

GS: All right. How long did you work as a landscape gardener?

TS: Well, I worked quite a while. You might say until I was about, you might say about seventy some odd years old. That's when I quit.

GS: And how old are you now at this interview?

TS: Fortunately, I've lived this long. Like I say, I'm today ninety-four years old.

<Begin Segment 8>

GS: What do you think about the memorial down in Eagle Harbor?

TS: When you first talked about it, I heard from Frank, and I thought well, I'm sure it's a very good thing to do, to let everybody know what really happened here. That what they are doing down there, would be a very, testimony that we did really happen which is good for the people that would like to see it. I'm not really, everybody has a different opinion, I suppose. That was my feeling, that if you are going to have it, let's have it so that everybody could see what happened.

GS: Do you have any other thoughts about anything else that happened to you during that time in your life on Bainbridge?

TS: Well, nothing exceptional. We have lived a very good life, I might say, other than that period of we spent down there and... I feel we are fortunate to live here on Bainbridge Island.

GS: Thank you. Oh, yes, you have three boys. How many grandchildren do you have?

TS: I have five grandchildren and one great-grandchild.

GS: And they live around here?

TS: Yeah, the oldest one lives in Federal Way, and then the second one, Gary lives in Poulsbo, and my youngest has a house, living in Portland, Oregon, area.

GS: So your three sons live fairly close to you.

TS: Yeah, more or less.

GS: And your grandchildren live close by also?

TS: Yeah, that's right.

[Interruption]

GS: The question, Dad, was why were you happy that you lived on Bainbridge rather than somewhere else?

TS: You mean before the war or after the war?

GS: Both, before and after.

TS: Well, the reason I came to Bainbridge in the first place was I wanted a job. I had to something. I didn't have a job since I came back from seeing my parents in Japan.

GS: Then after the war?

TS: After the war, well, see the, my wife's family had a farm here on Bainbridge Island and especially my father-in-law wanted to come back, so my wife said, "I'm going to go with him and take care of him," until he passed on.

GS: So when you returned to Bainbridge Island, you found that there was an opportunity here to live a better life?

TS: Well, I think so, especially for the boys. You know, it had a pretty good school here. We had a good relation with the neighbors and it was a very helpful neighbors around in that area. I think more or less, it's a two-way street, you might say. The Koba family had a good relationship with the neighbors where they used to live.

GS: All right.