Densho Digital Archive - Kato Okazaki Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

KO: I am Kete Okazaki. Now living in Seattle, Washington. And somehow I didn't get back that last ten miles to the island.

[Interruption]

KO: I was born and raised right in the heart of Winslow, in the high rent district, directly between the Dair mansion and Doctor Shepard's house. And they were both pretty substantial buildings. Unfortunately the Dair mansion burned not too long before our departure. The Allens took over that property. And... I drew a blank.

HM: What did your family do? Who consisted of your family?

KO: Right there on that property the family had control of ten acres of ground. It was owned by Mr. Black from Black Manufacturing in Seattle. And he allowed us to remain there on the property and use it for whatever we could. The ground at the Winslow site was pretty well depleted and grew berries up 'til probably the late 1920s, or in the mid-'30s I could recall being out in the middle of the fields. We did raise berries until the ground just wouldn't produce much, much of anything anymore. And it went, went back to grassland and Dad was, had more brains at that time than I ever gave him credit for. He horse traded, or cow traded and got himself a cow. And that was a, one of the biggest boons to our family well-being. The cow and a couple of pigs and always had the horse, of course. But at that time the original home property was pretty much a home base. 'Cause we had small plots here and there in Winslow and in Eagledale... later on in Eagledale. Almost to the top of the hill there, above McDonald School, is where the bulk of our farming endeavors ended up. And, let's see, ground on, in Winslow and on the island in general was really, to our thinking, didn't, wasn't fertile enough to really produce berries in the way we needed it to be. We did go off island and south of Port Orchard is where they found additional property that we were able to buy. And we were, at the time of Pearl Harbor and evacuation, part of us were at this new area, the new farm, so called. And that was South Port Orchard, but I think it was in Pierce County, where, up from Minter Creek, which is well known today for its oyster production. 'Course we were not thinking anything about the oyster production other than the fact that it was there. And there was a hatchery on Minter Creek, and salmon and such would come up. And we bordered Minter Creek, so the salmon, after they were spawning, or attempting to spawn, would be on the banks. And it was quite a, quite a new thing for us, or for me at least, to see these salmon try to swim up the small creek, and a novelty, I suppose. The dog loved it. He'd come from down in the creek and come back up to the house and we knew exactly where he had been 'cause he smelled to high heaven.

[Interruption]

HM: Tell us about who was in your family and who your family consisted of.

KO: Getting back to the Minter Creek farm, December 7th there was just two of us, George, and older brother, and myself were there. And on that particular day he was running the tractor and cultivating, I suspect. Anyway, I was out doing some hand weeding I believe, just to kill time. And I went in the house for lunch a little early to crank up the firebox in the kitchen range and get ready to make some lunch. And I came in and turned on the radio, and about that time I hear all this commotion on the radio about Pearl Harbor having been bombed. And I was totally shook up, and the first thing I did was forget lunch and ran out to see where my brother was. And he was pretty close at that time, at least within earshot, my shouting and hollering. I stopped him and told him what I heard on the radio. That was that particular Sunday. And from there we were up to... we checked back with the family on the island after that and they said, "If worst comes to worst, come on back to Bainbridge and we'll work it out from there." So that's what we did. We dropped everything there on the new farm and went back to Bainbridge.

Then there was a little, few other little incidents on the island that might be notable. The FBI thing, well, first got an idea that there may be something like that. One Sunday we were all out of the house and looking out at the street, and we see these nice black cars going up the street. And something's going on, and sure enough, one peels off and comes into the yard. That happened to, apparently that FBI was investigating all of us and we didn't know what to make of it at first. But I let them do what they had to do, and I was the youngest of six offspring, and I was kind of maneuvering myself around to see if I can hear what they were trying to uncover. And I did overhear a couple of remarks they may have made. One was the fact that our grand all-band radio, product of Sears-Roebuck and company, Silvertone, was or could be a transmitter if somebody wanted to make a transmitter. And I thought that was an odd comment for them to make, but apparently that's one of the things that they were looking for. But I let that go right by me because I wasn't in any way capable of doing anything with that radio. Other than that, I don't think they could object to anything that was on the premises.

<Begin Segment 2>

HM: You mentioned there were six siblings.

KO: Yeah.

HM: How were they in range and in age and who were they?

KO: At that time, Brush was the oldest. His real name is Seiji. I think, I'm told that his buddies or his playmates or whoever they were, all obviously hakujin, couldn't come out with "Seiji" and call him "Seiji." I think the closest they could come was Sage and then Sage Brush somehow it ended, it all ended up with just Brush. And he was known as Brush. The next sibling would be George. Now he had an American name. And George was fine, everybody could say George. But somehow they shortened it to Oak. Okay. And I could buy that. Obviously from the last name, shortened. But then the third brother was Nibs. Naoshi would be his proper given name and nobody around the neighborhood could ever say that, so it came out Nibs or Nabo. It was as close as they could make it. And he's been known as Nibs ever since, I suspect. And after that was Shiro. No one ever knew his name was Shiro really until, until he applied for college. He went through high school as Ebo. And there it stands all through grammar school and high school, Ebo. So we have... and then there was, the fifth son was Bill. He was named after William Clampet, the next-door neighbor. And William was his name and they all called him Bill of course. Then I was number six, all boys. My name when I started school was Keto, K-E-T-O. I went by that all through, all through grammar school and high school. Until evacuation when they said, "Get your papers together," did I ever know that my name was Kato, K-A-T-O. Well, at least that's the way it was spelled on my birth certificate. I didn't bother to make any changes or, or contest the spelling of my name. It's just easier to go by the name that was given. All through evacuation and army or military and college, it's been Kato. I get, I get a raised eyebrow every now and then from some people who see the name Kato as a first name. It is a, it is a given and an acceptable last name, but it's certainly not a first name.

<Begin Segment 3>

HM: At the time of the FBI round up did your dad have to, was he taken away, or...

KO: No he wasn't. He was with us throughout the whole affair, Manzanar, the whole bit. When we were transferred up to, to Minidoka in Idaho, he was fine. He enjoyed being back with his old buddies. But after just a few days there he was in that camp area between the two, Area A and Area B, there was a fire station there, he was walking right past the fire station and he collapsed. And... we were there maybe for a week or two. But he did see some of his old Seattle buddies. And they were all down there in Area A, so it was a long walk from Block 44 where we were back down to the lower area. He lasted about a week at the hospital there, camp. And succumbed to a cardiac, or not a cardiac but a cerebral hemorrhage. And as it turns out, having known that, it's one of the things that we look for and guard against within the whole family. Mother lived on to the ripe old age of eighty-six or seven. And at that time we were... she was in Chicago with my oldest brother Brush. She had a aneurysm at some location they could not reach, even if they tried. And she held on for about a week there in the hospital there in Chicago. At which time there still wasn't time for, to do much for her. Although they thought they would try some experimental procedure to try to reach that area. But she succumbed until before I think it was just died along those lines.

HM: Were there any thoughts or opinions about the evacuation among your family, your siblings or parents, about the whole evacuation?

KO: At the time of evacuation, Nibs was already in the service, in Fort Lewis. And Ebe was away to Washington State at Pullman. So, that left mom and dad and the four of us kids, the two oldest and the two youngest. And I was the very youngest. You'd better give me that exact question back again please.

HM: What were your thoughts about having to evacuate, having to leave the island? Were there differing opinions in your family?

KO: No. I personally had no qualms about evacuation except that where would we go and what's ahead of us. Beyond that I was free and loose and I'll take what comes.

HM: Do you remember the process of being evacuated?

KO: They, the bit about you could take whatever you could carry was pertinent. But, one case, I suppose is about all... I had no needs for much more, personally. 'Cause I wasn't, not knowing where I was going or why. One case was enough, really.

HM: Do you remember leaving on the island, leaving on the ferry and the train?

KO: I do remember being rounded up. An army truck came, rolled into the yard at that designated morning. And there was no problem for me to get on. Might have been a problem for Dad to make that climb onto the back of that truck. But apparently we all managed to get on and off we went. And the strangest thing, it turned out to be Eagledale. But in my mind, all I could think of was not Winslow. It was a strange ferry dock to me. And Eagledale dock was something unknown to me. Although I knew the ferry was... stopped there. It did not occur to me that that was the Eagledale dock that we boarded from. I do remember the ferry ride, but I can't specifically remember that as Eagledale dock.

HM: What were your thoughts as you... what do you remember about the ferry ride?

KO: It was a nice day. Beyond that... seems to me we boarded and we stayed down on the car deck. I don't know if anyone ever even tried to get up above to the passenger area. It was a good enough day that standing on that car deck was pleasant, 'til we got to Seattle. That's it.

<Begin Segment 4>

HM: What were your impressions when you first got to Manzanar?

KO: I have to chuckle thinking back on that one. That last, that last part of the journey from Seattle to Manzanar was by bus. We got off the train and I think there was three large travel, Travelways or some such name. They weren't Greyhound. Travel something, buses. The one that I was on somewheres down the line, maybe a couple hours from the train, developed a problem with the engine or with the fuel. It stalled and started again and stalled, and they gave up on it finally. And I think they sent another bus. So we transferred and got onto that second bus. And when we finally hit the camp site, which was still under construction, Shig Moritani, who happened to be on the same bus, made a comment about, "Look at. These people can walk up the sides of these buildings." 'Cause there were footprints on the tarpaper. And obviously a worker had walked on it while it was still flat on the ground and it was raised vertically later. But there were these footprints going up the side of this barracks that they had built. And we all got a good laugh out of that. Speaking of Shig, is he still on the island?

HM: No, he moved to Kingston.

KO: Really?

HM: But he's the only one left of his family now. I know that all your brothers and all of you went into the service. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

KO: Okay. At evacuation, Nibs was in the service already, in Fort Lewis. He was one of those early draftees that you serve your one year and you're out. Well, he was anxiously waiting for that one year to end. But unfortunately then we had Pearl Harbor. Then that ruined that idea. Anyway, they were, they were not discharged. And so he was then transferred out and I think he ended up in Camp Hood in Texas? Someplace, someplace like that. Up until that point he was the only one in service from our family. But as time went on and... and there was this "yes-yes" or "no-no" type questions that came up about loyalty. It was just immediately after transferring up to Minidoka that the effort to recruit volunteers for a special service was brought up. Bill and Kiyo Nagatani, I think they were buddies somehow from working out in the, in the farm, they both volunteered for the service. And Bill was accepted and for some reason Kiyo was not. I think it was some physical thing that Kiyo might have had. So Bill went off to do his little thing, basic. And that was the nucleus of the 442. First of all, Ebe in Pullman, he had terrible eyesight, bottle glasses, this type of thing. And so whether he wanted to or not he wouldn't be accepted for service. But Sage, George, and myself were, the rest of us, were still not in service.

Now from camp, the three of us, Sage, George, and myself, went out on a farm workers leave out of camp to an orchard in Mesa, Idaho. We worked the summer in that apple orchard. There was unfortunately a late frost that kind of reduced the crop outlook for that particular season. And so we salvaged what we could in the parts of the orchard that were not affected by the frost and did our little thing that way. We worked through to late in the fall into processing the apples as such, washing and sorting and boxing and loading them onto refrigerated freight cars, that was the part of the job that I had. These bushel baskets is what they had. And to get that freight car exactly with the exact count of baskets of apples that it had to be to call it loaded and full, was almost a puzzle. I'm sure I closed the door on a couple of freight cars that weren't quite exactly full, maybe missing one or two baskets. 'Cause I just could not get that, the line up, exactly how it... after a little while it was no problem at all to get the right count of baskets in these cars. They were refrigerated cars. I don't know where they... they were on the siding, maybe two miles away from the orchard itself. And it was my job to get the finished baskets into the freight cars using a flatbed truck with racks on the side. And it was a real challenge. But one way or another they got loaded and off. Also, in that same orchard, because of the frost and the outlook of very little in the way of fruit, they tilled some open areas of the orchard and planted cabbage. So early on in the war I helped the food supply a little. A little, a real little.

<Begin Segment 5>

HM: Where did you serve in the military after you...

KO: I was drafted after this orchard incident, instance. I thought to myself, "Well, with the little bit of cash in my pocket I'm going to go out and see the world." So I relocated to Chicago and there was a... there was an organization out in Chicago there that assisted people who were resettling and through their help I was able to make that move and they put me up for a couple of weeks until I got my bearings and after I got a job. I got a job in a liquor warehouse. I mean liquor, the real stuff. Old Forrester I think was their top of the line. But they had everything else. You name it, they had it. And then I got in touch with a couple of buddies, one of them of which I knew from the orchard. And they had an apartment and I imposed and talked my way into bunking up with them. That worked out fine, at least from my point of view.

After a few months in Chicago and now it was summer and gettin' warm, I got my draft notice that I was to report for a pre-induction physical at someplace in Chicago. I think it was right in the Loop someplace. But, well apparently I passed. They were joking about it. They said some guy made a comment that the navy was looking for good little guys like me in submarine service or something. I took 'em up on it. I said, "Okay, I'll volunteer for the navy." Knowing that the army was hot after me anyhow. But that didn't work. The navy guy shook his head, no. So I ended up one step ahead of the draft board. I moved back to camp in Idaho and I did my duty. I notified the local draft board that I was back. After that there was a delay of at least three months. I had all summer long to kill. From that point I was called up by the local draft board, Jerome, Idaho or some such, to report. Inducted into the army. It was, by that time, late summer. Went through Fort Douglas, Utah. And then a long train ride down. We knew, we did not know where we were headed for.

But we finally ended up in Camp Blanding, Florida. And we took our, or I took my basic training through the whole thing. And I was just thinking about that basic training bit after hearing about this fellow just recently being chomped on by a alligator. Camp Blanding was a little bit out of the alligator area, I think. Or at least I hope that's what it was. 'Cause we went swimming down in that lake every now and then and we didn't see any alligators. Course what we didn't know we didn't see. But we knew after a, after the whole training cycle was finished, they gave us one day, one Sunday, at a place called Silver Springs, in Florida. And it was a little bit of a resort town, as compared to camp town, just outside of the army camp. They had glass bottom boats and you could see right down into the water. And the place, Silver Springs I think it was called, the water was perfectly clear. You could see from the, from the glass all the way down to the vegetation growing down at the bottom of the pool, whatever it was. But along the river shore were alligators. And this was fifty miles away from camp. So if they had alligators that close, they might have had alligators in the lake we were swimming in. We didn't know. Nobody told us. That's it.

<Begin Segment 6>

HM: What about your... I know that you went to Italy and were stationed there at one time...

KO: Well after basic training, after a delay enroute, visiting the folks back to camp, long train rides, but we were young, we could take it. We finally ended up in the 442. But, let me tell you how we got there finally. This is... our training cycle ended in February. We had this delay enroute, back home. It was a furlough license I suspect, you'd call it a furlough. But it was a delay enroute. We actually had time enough to get back to camp and spend a few days. I actually took time off to take the northern way back through Minneapolis because two of my brothers were going through language school up there. And so that's exactly what I did. And I saw them for one day. Then moved on to Chicago, my old stomping grounds, and looked up a couple of buddies. Beyond that I then reported back to Fort... something in Maryland. Fort... I can't recall the name of the fort. From that assembly area, we were -- our training group, so we knew each other -- were assembled and moved off to Camp Shanks in New York, Upper New York, up the river. Camp Shanks was a port of embarkation, I think. Or at least that was an assembly area for a port of embarkation. So now it's getting to be early March. March. And after maybe about two or three days at Camp Shanks, New York, we were put on board a troop ship in New York Harbor. And this was an old -- not an old, because none of them were that old -- liberty ship. They were all within a few years of building 'em. They were that new. But they were, they were pretty rocky. They weren't all that sea worthy, I don't think. But this is all we had and we made the best of it. But going over on this troop ship, this liberty ship, from day one out of New York Harbor, I was sick. I went up for breakfast that first morning and took one look and... you know. And that was, that was enough. It wasn't stormy all that bad, but the ship was moving. And I'm not a sailor, obviously. I was sick from day one until time we got off. Story of my life.

HM: Is that how you got to Italy? Or how...

KO: That, well, we disembarked at Le Havre, France, amongst the whatever bits and pieces that we could see of leftover Normandy parts. They had a makeshift wharf, dock. And I'm not sure what they were built out of, but they were prefabricated steel units floating out there as docks. And somehow they anchored them to be sturdy enough to be used as docks. After about a month of evasive action on the Atlantic, the ships docks in Le Havre, France. That's right at the mouth of the Seine River, which I find out later. After a long last, here I am in France along with three or four hundred other guys. I'm trying to think what we did then.

[Interruption]

KO: From there... now we were trained as replacements for 442. So we were trying to catch up to the 442, which was in Southern France. Okay, now Le Havre is up in the northwest coast of France. So we have to go all the way through France to catch up to these guys. And we knew that, but we were living strictly day-to-day. They marched us off into some railroad yards. And here is a train of... a freight train. I mean, a real freight train, these [inaudible] boxcars. We were loaded aboard those. And off we went, trying to find the 442, which was at that time in Southern France, down in the Marseilles area. Our journey through France aboard these real freight cars... I mean they were freight cars. There was nothing there, just empty freight cars. Course we had our duffle bag and, and sleeping bag and whatever else, shoulder half of blanket. So we made do. And we passed on the outskirts of France... outskirts of Paris because way off in the distance a guy says, "Hey, there's the Eiffel Tower." Okay, so we all had to see the little Eiffel Tower that was a speck in the distance. That was all well and good.

By this time this is late March. I mean, real late March. We finally, we finally get down to Southern France, into a repo-depot, replacement depot, that the army always has here and there in the back area. And we find that the 442 is pulled back into a rest area not too far from there. Some of the guys took off and went, went up to visit friends and brothers and cousins or whatever. At that time I didn't know one thing from another. I knew my brother was out of... he was reassigned from his unit because he was wounded. And after his recuperation he was assigned to a quartermaster corps, I think. He was driving trucks somewheres up in, up in Southern France. So I had nobody to look up or see as far as brothers are concerned. Now, Bill was with the infantry in the third battalion. Nibs was the 522nd Field Artillery, which was still up in France, someplace, but they didn't know exactly where. So we ended up in Southern France. Finally got together with the unit that we're trained for. We weren't assigned to them. We're still replacements, individuals, unassigned. When the 442 went back to Italy, we followed them back. We went to a repo-depot to, just outside of Florence, in Italy. From there... from there I was, I think my imagination was getting the better of me, but this was about the time of the last offensive, that last push into the Po Valley. And I swear I could hear artillery fire somewhere close by. And about that time my blood pressure goes up another notch. Finally out of a repo-depot in Italy I'm assigned to the 442. I get as far as some provisional service company of the 442, which was a unit leftover from the regiment since they had all moved on ahead. They were successful, or so successful in their last offensive that the enemy was all the way, all the way north. They had retreated. And I can remember riding, riding this service company truck trying to catch up to the unit.

[Interruption]

KO: Well the offensive was so successful that the... that there was a group of us temporarily assigned to service company that we were hard pressed to catch up to them. And we were in six-bys, these army trucks, double dual rear axels and front wheel drive, the whole bit. We were riding those trucks trying to catch up to 'em, full speed down the freeways of Italy, up the west side of Italy, up from Pisa to Genoa. We overnighted in Genoa in some, some bombed out factory of some sort. We recognized it as some sort of factory building but we saw nothing in there that would say what they ever had or made. But we overnighted there and then moved on ahead. And by that time they were almost to Milan, or even further north of Milan. There was a Gei Airfield and the unit was that far. And Gei Airfield was designated as... by this time the war was done in Italy at least, Northern Italy. So the... perfect timing, personally. I had all this, all this travel and didn't fire a shot.

At that stage we finally caught up to the main body of the 442nd. However they decided who goes where... it seems like it was all alphabetical. The "Os" go here and the, and the other guys go there. Do you remember Bear Omoto? Somehow, out of Chicago, we meet at Camp Blanding in the same, in the same training company. And I'm with him all this time trying to get to Europe. The Os, tOmoto and Okazaki were assigned to Able Company 100th Battalion. I mean, that's a prestige outfit. And they've got awards and ribbons galore. And soon as you are one of them, I mean, they tell you, "Hey, you don't have any ribbons but you have to wear this." It's, it's... the ribbons were not earned by me, personally, but by the unit. So we're one of the big awards individuals along with the rest of 'em. Okay, speaking of Bear Omoto, we were in this airport area and this was a designated surrender area for German troops in the area. They came in voluntarily, convoy after convoy, and it was our job to process them. We were told they could have this that and the other, but they cannot have firearms, knives, or anything like that. And if they have firearms you confiscate it. Bear was in one of these search groups that apparently had an officer come through with a sidearm. They are told to lay everything out of their total possessions and they, the group from 442 would inspect 'em. And Bear was in this group that relieved this one officer of this sidearm. It happened to be a, it happened to be a thirty-two caliber Beretta, I think. It was a small one. And this was fairly late in the processing, so it was a prize, is what it was. And there was a group of people... group of 442 members that had to go and see it and fondle it and do whatever they do with a weapon that's, that's just been relieved from the enemy. But I was away from that particular group at the time and I heard a "pop" and apparently this pistol went off. Somebody had it. Bear was shot in the arm. The bullet was dangling just under the skin on his, I think it's his left elbow. Anyway, million dollar wound. So, he's rushed off to medics and that's the last I see of Bear, 'cause obviously he went to a hospital, or wherever they treated him. And talk about a million dollar wound. He was... "You're going home, soldier." So, I don't see him from there, that point on. But I, but that particular weapon is still there... on the examination area. Since Bear was the last one to have it, they said it was his. I mean, it was... so I took possession of that particular gun and carried it with me throughout the remainder of the time I spent in Italy and declared it as a war trophy and brought it home. I requested a discharge in Fort Sheridan, Illinois, because my brother was there, or out in Chicago at least. And I got the weapon back as far as Chicago. And Bear is living in Chicago, so I'm told. So I take this thing and says, "Hey, here's your war trophy." That million dollar wound.

<Begin Segment 7>

HM: All right. So then, after this part, after the war, where did your family go and what was it like when you returned into civilian life?

KO: I had the greatest time in the service, actually. I had no rank. I was a private first class. That's as high as I ever got. I bummed around the company, Able Company, 100th Battalion, and I just ate up all the laurels that they could offer and all the fun that they had together. At the latter part of the military service, I was with Headquarters, temporarily, temporary duty with Headquarters Company, 100th Battalion. Because they found out that I knew how to type. I could type all right, but not, not like a steno, or anything. But for the army records that was good enough. So for the last year or so of service in Italy I was doing what a company clerk might have done. Except at the regimental level they were more specialized. They had all your service records. They were able to make out payrolls so that the people got paid monthly. And they recorded any awards or things that had to do with, with individuals. Finagle for passes for Switzerland or wherever. Which reminds me, I was fortunate to finagle myself a week's stay at Cortina, Italy. The famous, now famous or ski resort. They held the Olympics there one year I understand. But this was long before that. But it was still a plush area. The -- I'm trying to think of the division -- Tenth Division took over 'cause they were skiers. And they left all their ski gear there and we could, the rest of us could go up there and get a halfway decent fit. Their ski boots, GI ski boots that GI's skis... oh, we were, we were living it up in some of those posh hotels.

<Begin Segment 8>

HM: Okay, how do you, how do you feel about what happened to you and your family during World War II?

KO: Well, in my view, it was totally unnecessary, all the expense that the government went to, to hold us up in concentration camps.

HM: How do you feel about this memorial that we're working on?

KO: Love it.

Off Camera: You have to say more than that. You can't just say that, 'cause we won't know what you're referring to.

KO: Well, the incident should be, should be remembered. Not only for me but for anybody else that might, that might come across that... 'cause I had the best time in the world.

Off Camera: What's the importance of building the memorial? Why should, why should it be built?

KO: So that we remember. And a lot of this, as you can tell from my hemming and hawing, it's not, it's not right there. I have to search for that memory. And having lived it, it shouldn't be that deep.

HM: What would you like to say to the visitors who come to the memorial to come to... what do you want to have them to get out of their experience going to the memorial?

KO: It should never have happened. I'd have loved to have been here during the war. And whether it'd be raising strawberries or any other vegetables in the cause. I'd have glad to have done that.

HM: That's very good. That was very good. Thank you.

Off Camera: Is that good enough, Hisa?

HM: Yes, I think so. Do you have any other things you would like to add or talk about?

KO: Well, we didn't, we didn't cover Bill much. He is a war... yeah, actually Bill, Nibs and Bill were... because Ebe was in Pullman and that was the last stable address that any of us brothers ever had. We used that as a rallying point. And everybody out of the service ended up in Pullman, one time or another. So being in a college town, Nibs, I think, was the first out of the service. And he had ideas of becoming a vet. And that is, that is an agricultural college or at least it was at one time. So he was thinking very seriously of trying to become a vet. He took a few college courses, initially. By the time I ended there, both he and Bill, having got out of service ahead of me, they were both attending. I looked into it and the GI Bill covered the whole gamut, from top to bottom. Four years, in my case it was five years, of schooling. Nibs somehow had a problem with being accepted by the vet school. I think after taking a few odd courses just to tide, just to kill time waitin' for his acceptance or not being accepted, he finally gave it up and went back to his automotive endeavors.

Now Bill, on the other hand, he was in pre-dent, or thinking pre-dent. Took all the right courses and after a couple years he gave that up. But he came back to it. And it wasn't pre-dent this time, it was bacteriology, microbacteriology. Apparently he loved the subject matter more so than dentistry and he stayed on. He graduated and he got his masters and he stuck with it a bit longer and he got his doctorate. Applied after that, after a point in time, he applied University of... no, it was Michigan State University. They have a large USDA facility there and they do some fine research work and he was accepted to a program in there, after he got his doctorate at Wazzu. And he spent his entire career out there. I think some disease in the poultry area is where he nailed something down. He wrote a paper and it was published and he finally got a little bit of a reputation. He went to Japan shortly thereafter under the auspices of the Japanese government that, that was interested in some of his work.

And in the meantime there's me. I'm struggling with some college courses. And I really wasn't prepared for college. In high school, you know, I didn't take the algebras and the geometries and the trigonometry or anything like that. I was content with Mr. Marley's class in the shop. But Ms. Biggs, in her wisdom, I guess, somehow rammed some, some little bit of algebra in there, somewhere in my brain. Through all, through all of my college courses, just that one rudiment of algebraic thinking, of proportions, chemistry, physics, it was all that same proportion thing that I was able to dig back out of my thick skull, and used to solve some of these problems. Satira Biggs, I remember that lady.