Densho Digital Archive - Akio Suyematsu Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

DG: Can you take us back to before the war and tell me about your family and what farming was like for you before the war? What did your family farm and what was that like?

AS: How farming was?

DG: Uh-huh.

AS: Before the war?

DG: Before the war. What, what were you farming and what did your family do?

AS: I was young yet and I was still going to school, so I didn't have too much to say then.

DG: I have listed that your occupation -- and this is from a government record that we found that they did on you before they took you to camp...

AS: You got you got to speak a little louder. I can't...

DG: Okay, I'll shout.

AS: Honest to God. Even with this on, [points to ear] it's terrible. Five thousand dollars?

DG: You need a, yeah, oh...

AS: You know what I mean?

DG: Yeah, that should, it should work. Okay, so you were listed as a truck and tractor driver. Is that true?

AS: No tractor.

DG: No tractor, yeah.

AS: I had horses.

DG: You had horses. And what was your job on the farm?

AS: Who was the last farmer on Bainbridge with a horse? [Points to self] Right here.

DG: When was that?

AS: 1951? No other... I drove the truck all right, but no tractor. All the, all the Japanese that were here came back... well, I had to pay the land off. So I didn't have no money so I couldn't buy a tractor. Everybody else bought a tractor. In 1951 or '52, I bought the first tractor. My, I couldn't afford anymore because I had to pay for the land now. So...

[Interruption]

DG: So, can you tell me again -- you have to repeat yourself -- tell me about... tell me about farming with your horse.

AS: Farm what?

DG: Tell me again about being the last farmer to have a horse.

AS: Where?

DG: Yes.

AS: I don't, I don't... you know my social security? I report on the net, right? So it's peanuts. I don't even make enough for groceries so I have to keep farming. I got no choice. Like, the guys that work at Boeings, they put in social security on the gross. Well, a farmer only puts it on the net. And my net is nothing, you know, after taking all the expenses off. So my social security is nothing. I don't, I can't live on my social security. I don't, I don't even count it. So I have to keep farming. I got no choice. But it, maybe it's a good thing for my health and longevity and... I don't know. I don't know what the real answer is.

<Begin Segment 2>

DG: And do you want... what would you like to have happen to your land after you pass away?

AS: What?

DG: What, what do you want to have happen to your land in the future? What would you like your land...

AS: I don't want no houses.

DG: No houses.

AS: No, no, no houses. Well, I sold to the city, right? Whether they can hold that after I'm gone, I can't, I can't promise that. But while I'm living there's gonna be no houses there. Not while I'm living.

DG: So you would like it to always be farmland?

AS: Yeah. And that other place in Seabold, I got twenty-some acres there. I could sell it tomorrow. I got cash offers for that whole thing already. But I, I don't want to sell it. I says, "You gonna put in houses?" "Yes." I says, well, I don't want to see houses. I got enough to see houses on the island already. I don't know, I'm just different, that's all. Everybody else, all the millionaires, farmers, you know, Koura... Koura brothers, Terashita brothers, they all made millions and went all housing, right? You know, it's just like Nob just sold his, was it last year? One-million, three for just five acres. You know how much you can buy land in eastern Oregon for? Five hundred dollars an acre. I don't know. What would you do if you was in my shoes? That's what I want to really ask you.

DG: No, that would be tough. It would be too tempting to sell. So, how, how come you are different? What makes you different?

AS: I don't know. I see too many houses. I don't, I just... look what I'm fighting now just because I sold to the city, you know. You've probably read the Review, right? You probably know what I'm going through. They want to cut my trees down on my own property? When they all get together and try to fight me... you know, I got a lawyer on there now, but... on and on and on, it's just...

DG: Well, I, it's admirable because I like Bainbridge because it's rural and it's trees and land...

AS: That's right.

DG: And I don't want to see a bunch of neighborhoods and developments. But, like you said, the money is... it's hard to resist. So I'm... what's, what's important to you? What's more important to you than money?

AS: I just want to be left alone. Get it?

DG: Uh-huh.

AS: I want to farm and leave me alone. That's my motto, but I don't know. I think you went through this a hundred times already about other farmers and...

DG: We have not talked to farmers like you, though, who are still farming. And I think the only farmers we talked to -- we talked to Sat Sakuma and his family's farming in Bellingham. And, we talked with... Kojima, Tats Kojima and his family quit after...

AS: Sat?

DG: Sat, Sat Sakuma.

AS: Or Tad Sakuma?

DG: No, we talked to Sat.

AS: Sat? Yeah, that's the Sakuma brothers in Mount Vernon. They used to farm here, see. You know where Yoshida is now? That's where Sakuma brothers farmed when they were young. Yeah, Sat still... Isaac was my grade but he passed away. Sat's the younger one. He's, he's probably five, six years younger already. Probably eighty years old now.

<Begin Segment 3>

DG: So can you tell me, what, what did you do on the farm when you were young, before the war? You were a senior in high school...

AS: Before the war?

DG: Yes, what was your job?

AS: Well, I used to help my dad out. That's all. You know, we'd, in the winter most of the time we dug ditches to keep the water and drain out. We did, we did a lot of hand digging of ditches. Until I got a backhoe... got enough money to buy a backhoe, so I didn't have to do all the hand and pick shovel work. [Laughs]

DG: Did you help clear the land or was that your father?

AS: What?

DG: Did you help clear the land, originally?

AS: What kind of land?

DG: Clear it. Get the, take the trees away. Did you help with that?

AS: Yeah. That was all on forestry when my dad bought it. Forty acres. And he had the whole thing logged. You know he never got one penny for it?

DG: Why was that?

AS: You know how loggers were sixty, hundred years ago? They, they were cheaters. You know, they were crooks. Soon as they get done logging things they pack up and leave. Where you gonna find them? We had forty acres of timber, nice timber. My dad never got a penny.

DG: Did he try to find them?

AS: Huh?

DG: Did you try to find them?

AS: We found them but they wouldn't pay.

DG: What did they say?

AS: They don't say nothin'. They just said they don't owe no money. [Laughs] I worked, too. I cut wood by hand, get it, and sold cord wood, you know, and many of them were never paid for. All we got is cheated, all our lives. I'm, I'm tired of it. You get what I mean? Before the war, it was a lot different. People cheated us if they got the chance. Just like, you know, we were downgraded. So, before the war it was kind of rough, because Japanese, a lot of them, you know, a lot of them got cheated out of this, cheated out of that. And my dad, he cut wood, too, in the wintertime because we were, you know, we didn't have enough money. He had, we had six kids in the family, so... there were a lot of cords of wood that never got paid for. I just... I, I look at life a little bit different than he did. So, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and maybe he's right. I don't know, I mean...

DG: How was your opinion different than your dad's?

AS: How is opinion what?

DG: How, how was your opinion different than your father's?

AS: Well, my dad was more lenient. When I came back from the service and I went into business, you know, I took over because my dad couldn't do much. I was more strict. Cash up front or forget it. Just walk out of here. You know, I was more meaner. I mean, my dad, his, you know, he would smile and say, "Oh yeah, pay it next week." That, that next week never came. But me, I'm a little bit different. That log, that one piece I had, bring it up front first, then we'll talk business. So, I did things different than my dad. My dad was more lenient, you know. I don't know if that was better, or... it was better for the public probably, maybe? But not, not for the family. You know... but you don't realize what my parents went through. I mean, you don't realize it, but I realize it now that I know what I went through. Things were tough. I mean, really tough. Yeah, we used to, I know in the fall we used to, my dad used to go down there to the fishing boat and buy all the cheapest fish we can buy and can it, put in our... and have that for the winter. We couldn't afford nothing else. Bought rice, that's about all. I mean, it was a tough life. I mean, people don't realize it.

<Begin Segment 4>

DG: How did you afford the land?

AS: Huh?

DG: How did your father afford the land?

AS: You, you didn't... did you read the Woolrich's article?

DG: No.

AS: God, you should have read that. That was the most true interview I ever had in my life. She was a good lady. And I told her what happened, that my dad didn't pay nothing. He didn't pay the interest on the land, you know, because we didn't have no income, right? I mean, we're down there for what? Two years, three years, four years? No interest. Do you know what that is? Interest on interest? Huh? Three times the price of the property. So when I came back from the service, I figured I lost it, 'cause it was under my name. 'Cause my dad couldn't buy land, he was an Issei. So... then I was gonna become a mechanic in Seattle. I was gonna go partner with somebody, and I went down to the North Coast Electric Company, Mr. Burns -- he was a nice man, he was a rich man but he was a nice man. And he says, "You know what? Long as you pay all the interest on that money, I'll let you have it back." So I scraped and scrinched for how many years and paid that interest back. Then I, then I paid the land law and got the title. But I had to struggle. I mean, most people didn't get their land that way. They got it a lot easier than I did. I, I... mine was a tough situation. And he was a millionaire but he was a nice man. He was a real nice man. I mean, I take my hat off for him, 'cause he says, "Long as you pay the interest, I'll let you have the land back." I says, "Well, I can't get anything better than that." 'Cause we couldn't pay it anyway because we didn't have no money. He took a chance, too, that I might not make it. So...

DG: Why do you think he did that?

AS: Hmm?

DG: Why do you think Mr. Burns helped you out?

AS: Mr. Burns?

DG: Yeah. Why, do you think?

AS: He was nice to everybody. He wasn't just nice to me. I would go down there and help him on the weekend, workin'. He would pay me triple what anybody else could get, just because he knew that we needed money. That's now nice he was. Instead of paying a dollar an hour he paid me probably three dollars an hour. And that was high sixty years ago, you know what I mean. [Laughs] No, he was a good man. He was a really good man.

DG: When did you finally have that deed paid off? What year was that?

AS: What?

DG: What year did you pay it off?

AS: Probably took four or five years. Because that's when I bought my first tractor. Because I didn't have to have that payment. God, I can't tell you exactly when. I mean, probably five years and I paid the whole thing off, you know. Then, then I bought a tractor. And from then I bought a new truck and... you know. I'm not saying I was getting' rich, but I was gettin' by. So...

DG: So it was five years after the war? After you returned from the war?

AS: Uh-huh. After the war, yeah.

<Begin Segment 5>

DG: What was the land like when your parents came back from the war?

AS: Oh, that was in a mess. Really a mess. Yeah, it was really a mess. See, what happens in farming is, if you take care of the land, it'll take care of you. You know what I mean? Because after we left, nobody would take care of it. They took care of it, but they didn't take care of it like we did. They let the weeds go up, go in seeds, drops down, weed comes up. You know what I mean? Well, that's what happened. So it took probably ten years before we got it back in shape again. I'm not trying to brag or anything, but today, the way I farm, it's richer than it was twenty years ago. I mean, I, I do a lot of turnover. You know, like manure, I get all the horse manure on Bainbridge Island, almost. What do I do with it? I put it back out in the field. Work it up, and... so my land, farming, is better now than it was twenty years ago. It's hard to say that, but most people run it down, right? They keep farming it and then they have nothin' at the end. Not mine. Mine I, I keep mine in nice shape, I mean. But a lotta work.

DG: Where did you learn to do that?

AS: [Laughs] Do what?

DG: Where did, how did you learn to get more out of your land?

AS: Well, I don't know. You learn the hard way. I do things... hey, I'm eighty-five years old. And you know something about farming? I'm still learning things. Don't tell me I know everything, no way. I'm still learning at eighty-five years old. Get it? So, my knowledge is -- I'm not trying to brag -- but I know quite a bit more knowledge than the guys that are beginning. Well, they do a lot of... they come and ask a lot of questions, but I tell them the truth. Don't be afraid to work. If you can't work, forget it, just stay at home. I tell 'em, "You've gotta work hard. You're gonna live long, too, if you work hard." You know thing as overwork? You ever hear of that? Not on a farm. They work their butt off, right? I don't know. Is that all of it now?

DG: No, no... [Laughs] That's great, though. Because a lot of what we want to hear about is, is agriculture on Bainbridge Island. And I think the Japanese Americans really started agriculture on Bainbridge Island. And now, it's come full circle and it's pretty much only you. Right? I mean, it's...

AS: Yeah, you're right... I mean...

DG: So, I, we'd like to hear about how the Japanese started the farms and then what happened because of the war. Can you tell us about the Japanese American farming community before the war compared to what happened because of the war? Like what happened after?

AS: Uh-huh. If I had to do it over again, I don't know, see. I, I like farming, but I don't like to be a mechanic, an auto mechanic. Work inside a garage and fumes and gas... no, I'm glad I went this way. Because I like the other way, too, but this was a better route for me, I mean, at the end. I mean, I probably wouldn't even be living if I was a mechanic. Most of them don't, they don't... most mechanics, auto mechanics that work in a cheap place, they don't live very long. You notice that? I notice that. Because... they just gotta retire early. Painting, painting same department. You know, body shop, painting... I know one guy that died, he was only fifty-two years old. And I says, "I bet you it was painting." And then Sakuma brothers? One brother did all the spraying. Where is he? He, he died when he was young. I mean, all these things I keep comprehending. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

<Begin Segment 6>

DG: Do you remember back before the war, did the Japanese American farmers work together? Did you help each other out? Or...

AS: Uh-huh.

DG: How did you...

AS: Yeah, they really helped each other out. Yeah, they did. I mean, you had your hardship in the family. If you lost a family, kid, or somethin', they really came out and helped. That's, that's amazing. You don't, they don't do that today, see. And every, nobody was really rich. But, they, they... when you get that many families, you're, and even if they give you a dollar, it's a big help at that time, you know what I mean. I lost a brother at nine years old, and I kinda remember that. I mean... so it was six in the, it was seven or eight, but one of 'em, one of 'em passed away at nine years old. And I'm lucky; I'm the oldest. I lost a brother at fifty-three? Sixty-three, seventy-two. I lost three of 'em already. And I'm the oldest, dumbest farmer. You know what I mean? They all worked in the office. I mean... but that ain't the answer, is it?

DG: Can you tell me about what happened to your nine-year-old brother?

AS: The what?

DG: The, your brother that died at nine years old? What happened?

AS: That happened this way?

DG: No, yeah, how did... tell me about how your brother died, the young one, at nine years old.

AS: I don't know what happened to him. The doctors weren't up to date on a lotta things at that time, and families did lose kids, you know what I mean. And I don't know what happened to him. He got sick and he was gettin' better and all of a sudden that was gone. I mean... he was, I don't know what really was wrong. It was, it was something wrong because he didn't gain weight or nothing and was skinny, and he didn't eat right. I don't know. And then I had two brothers already that had a heart attack. And I had a sister that passed away. She was seventy... she's seventy-four, somethin' like that. But I thought she would live longer than that. But, you know, she didn't drink or smoke or nothin'. It makes a difference, but I don't know. That all now?

DG: You're doing great. [Laughs] I want to learn more.

AS: What, ain't that enough information?

<Begin Segment 7>

DG: Can you, can you tell me more about... I want to still talk about farming, before and after the war. What... because specifically this is for the memorial and what relocation... having to be away from your land for so long, and...

AS: Before the war we had, you probably know how many was here, roughly, huh?

DG: I've read it.

AS: Every one of 'em was a farmer. It wasn't nothin' else. What, what was that? Two hundred and some people that, when we left here? Somethin' like that, wasn't it? Well, they were all farmers. Well, some of them weren't farmers, they were on welfare, you know, I mean, but not very many. Most of 'em were... they struggled, I'm telling you. Some of 'em really had tough times.

DG: At the time of the war, were the Japanese...

AS: What was that?

DG: At the time of the war, before the war started, were the Japanese farms fairly successful? Were they doing okay?

AS: Yeah, they were doing all right. They were, they were getting by. Every year they were doing a little better. You know what I mean? But when the war started and then they, we had to leave here... see, we only had sixty days and we would have been harvesting our berries. You know what it is? Sixty days and then we had to leave. That's... they should at least let us harvest our crop, then leave. You know, that's what they should have did. I, I'm not the President, so... I just said... my dad and we hired people to help us weed and everything, all summer long and then here comes the harvest in sixty days and we had to leave? That's a, that's a real hardship. We never got a penny, get it? I mean, I'm not trying to be a crybaby or anything, but... I don't think you want to hear all that stuff.

DG: No, we do. And, did someone on the behalf of the Japanese write to the government to try to allow you to stay to farm?

AS: Now what?

DG: Did somebody in the community try to write to the government to allow you to stay?

AS: No, nobody even... it was a waste of time then. No, they just... when the war started, I think it was the next day or two days, FBI... everybody was chosen in the FBI, got a police badge and, come into my house, don't even knock. See the radio there? Put it in the woodshed, took a big axe and... [makes chopping motion with hand] and you know what I mean? They weren't even policemen. They were just hired as a destruction bugger. Said, "Well, that radio could be sent to Japan." I said, "Yeah, it could be. You wanna fix it and send it to Japan?" You know what I mean? My dad was not a, you know, double-crosser. You know, I mean, he farmed all his life. And you think he's gonna be a spy or something? Then they took him away, too, for how many days. Because we had dynamite and we used to clear the land. We used to blast stumps. And they found one or two of them caps, you know, for dynamite and then they took him away, too. And that was a hardship because we were young yet, you know. You know, I'm, I'm the oldest, but we had 'em down to... my sister's the youngest. She's, how old is she now?

DG: She was thirteen.

AS: She was... probably five, six years younger. She was probably thirteen or fourteen, yeah. So that's it, huh?

<Begin Segment 8>

DG: Well, what was it like then to get ready to leave?

AS: The what?

DG: What did you have to do to get ready, in order to, to leave the island? When you got the order that you had to evacuate, what did, what did you and your family do to prepare to leave?

AS: We couldn't do much. You only could take what you could carry. You know, I mean... I don't know. I was young then and I was still goin' to school, so... I can't tell you too much on that part. But the, a lot of people were on our side and a lotta 'em were against us, too, see, so when I got back from the service, I had a friend -- I think he was a good friend -- I didn't think he was my friend, but he was my friend because he wrote me a letter, told me all the names of the double-crossers. Now, that was a good deal, because he was a nice man. But I didn't think too much of him because he was just a, you know, old man and, and he wrote to me and see what happened and... that's why, you know the grange here, Filipino, Japanese, remember that? Well, don't you think that's wrong?

DG: What's wrong? That...

AS: Well, we couldn't join it if...

DG: Oh.

AS: Isn't that wrong?

DG: Yes.

AS: Well, that's just the same thing. See, he, he told us which one was against us. And that was a good thing to me. So when I came back, I come up and shake hands with you, I just said, "Yeah, that's fine." I don't care. I didn't say nothin'. But I got in my inside [points to temple].

<Begin Segment 9>

DG: Can, could you tell... did people treat you differently? Could you tell... did anything happen that showed you that they were not going to help you?

AS: No, they just... I remember the grange. We wanted to go into the grange. Filipino and Japanese were ousted. Now, that's wrong. So I kinda kept that in my mind. And now that we could join it again, and I just, said, "Are you interested in lettin' me join?" I said, "I'm not going to join." You know, I'm kinda hard-headed, you know what I mean? You don't blame me do you? Hmm?

DG: No, I think that's admirable. When, I think my grandmother was a member, wasn't she?

AS: What?

DG: I think my grandmother was a member of the grange. Was, did my...

AS: I don't know if she was gonna join the grange or not. I remember, I, I looked into it, and... I, I knew the hires up in the grange. And that was one of the names that he turned me in. And I says, "Oh, yes. All the things are driving up here." Get what I mean? So I found out he is still against us. You know, I thought maybe they might change their mind at the end. But there was a lot of people that were on our side, that I mean were good people. I mean, really good. You know, you don't hear about that because there are so... you know what I mean, you hear about all the bad ones but you don't hear about the good ones.

DG: Tell me about what did they do to help you or support you?

AS: Oh, they, they fought us every way they can. Even the... you know, here, after we left, they still was fightin' for us. You know, for, you know what I mean? Other people cared less. You know what I mean, I mean... some of 'em care less. They don't give a damn what happens to you. Are you the third generation?

DG: I'm actually fourth.

AS: You're the fourth?

DG: Because my, my grandma, Shigeko, was born here.

AS: Oh. Your grandmother?

DG: Yeah. Shigeko Kitamoto was my grandmother.

AS: Oh. You should put more of your... you know, Shigeko in there. I mean, she never got a thank-you note or nothin', but she was one of the better farmers, that... you don't know it, do ya? But she is one of the best ones. She started a lotta things that nobody even thought of thinking about. So you gotta be on her side. I mean, I'm not tryin' to, you know... I don't, sure, I'm a farmer all right, sure, but I'm not as good as her. She started a lot of things that I never even thought of thinking.

DG: Where did she learn that? I thought it was from the grange. It was... do you know where she got her ideas?

AS: What?

DG: Where did my grandma get her ideas from?

AS: Oh, well, I don't think she got everything from me. She, we did talk on the phone a lot, you know, I mean, and she learned things that I knew and I learned some things that she knew. So, I mean, well, who started all this raspberry stuff on Bainbridge Island? Nobody had raspberries on Bainbridge Island. You notice that? Well, you probably didn't know it. But I, I know what happened. Henry Maybaum up there, he, he was the biggest raspberry grower up there in Kingston. And he thought a lot of Mrs. Kitamoto because he used to combine their order to ship back east. And he thought a lotta her, because she took care of the whole thing, you know. Frank didn't take care of it, she did it. She made... how do you think I got started?

DG: In raspberries?

AS: Yeah. After she had it for about ten years. Then... I got one of her workers, and I learned a lot from him because he learned it from her. You understand? I mean, he, he did a good job for me on the raspberries. Because he, he did it for Mrs. Kitamoto for many years, learned it all. I, I'm just new at it. I didn't know what was goin' on. He'd, he'd tell me what to do. So I learned it from him. I learned it from that Filipino, and that Filipino learned it from your mother.

DG: And...

AS: She's probably one of the first Christmas tree growers on Bainbridge Island, too. She's... I think I was pretty close, right... even with her or maybe a year behind her. I don't know, I've forgotten now.

DG: She told me it was your idea. You told her she should do Christmas trees.

AS: [Laughs]. Yeah, you should write up on her. I'm, I'm serious.

DG: No, I'd, I'd like to hear more about her and, because she's gone now and I, I was young when she was still farming. And I took for granted how she got there.

AS: I think one of the Narte boys will tell you, too, about a lotta things about her.

<Begin Segment 10>

DG: Did you have much help from the Filipino community in, in farming your land?

AS: Not too much. Not too much. I had one from, that one that worked for your mother, I mean, Shigeko, and he worked for me for about two years. I learned a lot from him. I did, I really did. I mean, 'cause I never raised raspberries in my life, so I didn't really know how to take care of 'em. But she knew how to take care of it right. I mean... and credit goes there, should be. Not over here.

DG: And how did the Filipino farming community work with the Japanese farming community? Did you help each other out? Or did, was there a relationship there? Even like around the wartime and after?

AS: During the war I remember they were all on their own. I know after the war there was nobody in the business of gettin' all these fields ready for planting and stuffing. 'Cause everybody... nobody wanted to do it. It cost money, too, you know. I did all, most all of it on the island, for the Filipinos. They wanted to plant a little field, I'd work that ground up, then I'd go over here and I'd go over here. Different places and... 'cause I had the equipment then. You know, I mean... so, when they plant berries, they all call me up. I said, "Okay, I'll do it if I get time." Gee whiz, I put in long hours then, when they can't do it now. [Laughs]

DG: Did you... who was, who helped your family do the picking and the harvesting? Was it just the kids in the family or did you hire...

AS: I had what?

DG: What... around the wartime, or before the war, who was helping harvest the berries? Was it...

AS: Oh, the Canadian Indians. You know, they would come down here. There would be lots of 'em here. There'd be thousands of 'em here on the island. That's all there was then. But now it's different. I had, one, two, three... three come down this summer from Canada. I used to have about thirty of 'em, you know, during harvest. But I don't farm that big no more. I don't have strawberries, I just got little bit of raspberries and I raise pumpkin. I do quite a bit of that.

DG: Don't you sell strawberries at your, on your farm in, during...

AS: Hmm?

DG: I thought you sold strawberries. Do you grow, you don't grow strawberries anymore?

AS: No, I quit strawberries over ten years ago.

DG: Oh, whose strawberries are those that you sell then?

AS: They're Karen then. See, she's been with me about twenty years. You know, she, ever since she got out of high school she been workin' for me. But, I don't know. She's, she's got a good deal. I gave her land and everything for farming and, because she's been working for me a long time. I don't know. But farming is a tough life, though. I mean, I'm not saying it's an easy life. She's knows it now. I mean, after twenty years of work, you gotta work hard to get it. I mean otherwise you'd never make it, never make it. Not very many people could stay on a farm and work. We had four or five people livin' in my house up there and they -- you know, white people. They worked, they were young, worked on the farm. And out of that five, if you got one, you're lucky -- that want to work. You know, they just can't take it. I mean, if you weed all day, your back hurts and you know what I mean? They don't wanna do it. They just want to kick the weeds. It just, it's just not there. It's hard to find a good helper. I got a couple Mexicans pretty good now, I'm trying to hang on to them. Enough?

<Begin Segment 11>

DG: Well, can you tell me more about the war?

AS: Don't think of more... isn't that enough?

DG: It's very interesting to me. Can you -- you told me before about what your father thought of the draft. Tell me again what your father said to you about the military and the draft, and joining, enlisting in the...

AS: Yeah, you mean for the draft that we had? He was against it, but he never fought when I got drafted. I was workin' on my cousin's farm then, and he didn't say nothing. He just... he, he let me go. Isn't that somethin'?

DG: What did he say about enlisting?

AS: What?

DG: Enlisting in the army.

AS: No, he didn't want me to volunteer. A lot of people volunteered. To me, I thought that was stupid. That's a heck of a thing to say. You know, they draft you in the camp, put you in the camp, and you volunteer? Isn't that... do you believe in that? Huh? I thought that was stupid. That's my thinking. I was only twenty years old then. I was, I wasn't smart, I was dumb in school. I didn't know much. But, I went out, I didn't like to stay in camp. What do you do? You go crazy goin' there. I went... I got a, my cousin was farming in Weiser, Idaho, so I worked for him. And I thought maybe, well, they can maybe defer me. But, no, they took me out of the farm and put me in the army.

DG: And where were you in the army... where were you sent while you were in the army?

AS: Huh?

DG: Where, what did you do in the army?

AS: I was an MP. I took the basic training for 442, remember? The famous? And when I got out... oh, when I finished my training, the war was over in Germany. So we were the first ship going across, you know, when the war was over. So instead of takin' seven days to go to England, only took three days because we didn't have to go this way, see. [Laughs] Yeah, I stayed in... they put me in MPs there for two years. That was a boring job. No, it is; it is a real boring job. I know I wouldn't want to be in military police. You know, routine, day after day after day after day. I stuck it out. [Laughs]

DG: And then you came back to Bainbridge Island to start farming again --

AS: 1947. '07 I'll have sixty years of farming. I got, if I live that long, I got another thirty days to live, maybe. I'm, I'm lucky I'm here today even talkin' to you because, in, what was that, February or March I had that major heart attack.

DG: And you look great.

AS: Well, I didn't think I was gonna ever come back. I didn't even know where I was. I was totally berserk, honest to God. I didn't know if I was on Bainbridge Island, or I was in Seattle. I didn't know where I was. They just said, "Well, you got a strong heart." I said, "Oh yeah? How come I had a heart attack then?" [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 12>

DG: So when you came back after the, being in the military, who, what was the farming community like here on Bainbridge? How would it change?

AS: When was that?

DG: After the war. When you, you came back from being in the military...

AS: There was only Hayashidas, Kitamotos, Terashitas, Horishige. There was only four farmers left. Out of what? How many farmers? You probably got it better...

DG: I think I have it written somewhere, but I don't know right now.

AS: Yeah, well, there were probably twenty or thirty, huh? All of that. You know, they were not big, but they were small. After the war, Hayashida had their own property, right? Koura had their own property, Terashita had their own property, Horishige, I think they bought it, bought it when they came back. They didn't buy much land. And then my dad had it, but that wasn't, that was up in the air, right, because we didn't really own it, so. Then after, after we all got back, the Filipinos more or less quit. They can't... I'm not saying we're better than them, but they couldn't compete as well, so they kind of more died off and went to work in the Navy yard. You know, a lot of 'em did 'cause they made more money there. Over?

DG: Were there other people farming on the island who were not Japanese or Filipino?

AS: [Laughs] Huh?

DG: I'm confused. How, was Bainbridge still a big agricultural area after the war?

AS: After the war what?

DG: Was there still a lot of farming on Bainbridge after the war?

AS: Nothing. After the war, Koura, Koura brothers stayed in, Hayashida brothers, Terashita brothers. And then that's all. It was my dad and then Horishige. They didn't have much. That's it.

DG: So did the amount that was produced on Bainbridge ever get back to where it was before the war?

AS: Before the war? They were big.

DG: And it never got back to that?

AS: No, not that big. Koura brothers were pretty big after the war. They got probably the same as before the war. But that was a headache. And after everything was over they all... their father and mother quit and they sold everything out. And that's when it went into Meadowmeer, up there. Terashita sold everything out, you know, he had fifty acres there. Koura brothers had a hundred and somethin' acres there. They all made good money.[Laughs] But, me, I could have sold mine the same way. And, you know, I'll be rich today, too, but... they gave me a pretty good deal, the city did. I got more, six more years to farm there. Then after the six years, if I'm still living -- if I, I doubt that, but -- I got the control of that fifteen acres. I get to farm it the way I want. I rent out part of it if I wanted to, and, and... so that was a pretty good deal. I mean, they're paying, they're paying me the interest, no principal, because, you know, my brother and sister will get it all, I mean, if I'm if I'm gone, so. But they gotta come up with the big income, income tax if I'm gone because it all goes to them, see.

DG: Your brother and sister.

AS: Huh?

DG: Your brother and sister.

AS: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 13>

DG: Now Lucy wants to know, why, after the war, did farming not get back to where it was before the war. Why, what happened to farming because of the war?

AS: I think, I think myself, is when, when they were here, everybody before the war was started, everybody had a big family, right? So, depending on the family, it was good that everybody was together. If they, if you was working in Boeing or somethin', it's gone, right? This way the family is together all the time. And that's, I think that was one of the good points on farming. But to have the big money, no. I mean, even today, farming, it's a rough go. You ask all them guys, even Brian, you know Brian, that guy that raises all that vegetable? He's a big-time vegetable grower. Even him, it's... you gotta work. He found that out, too. [Laughs]

DG: So how did the war affect families? You said before the war families were very close-knit and together...

AS: They were close, they're close together, because they all worked together and harvested. You know what I mean? The whole family. Then after the war they kind of... the kids went out and worked in Seattle and it was all, it was not a real farming family anymore. I mean, just like Nishimoris, you know. They had how many, they had five girls in that family, and one boy or somethin'. They all worked in Seattle, right? That's where the difference was. Otherwise, it would have been here harvesting strawberry, weeding it, and...

DG: So do you think being in the camps for up to four years...

AS: The what?

DG: Do you think that because these families were in the internment camps for up to four years, that sort of broke the families apart, or allowed kids to...

AS: I, I think you're right, I think it kind of broke it apart, yeah. Otherwise they would have been more closer together, I think. I don't know, I can't tell ya. But, I don't know, when the family is together more, it's more better, isn't it? More environmental... it's better, isn't it? I mean, that's what I think. I don't know.

DG: Because even in camps, did you eat with your family or did you eat with your friends?

AS: The what?

DG: In the camp, in internment camp, like at Manzanar, did you eat with your family or did you eat with friends?

AS: No, we eat in a big mess hall. You know, the big mess hall, and everybody went there. When the bell rang, everybody lined up and went in there and... it's like army camp. You know what I mean? It's same principle.

DG: How did it change your family?

AS: Huh?

DG: How did the war change your family specifically? What happened to your brothers and sisters because of the war?

AS: My family, what?

DG: How did the war change your family?

AS: Oh, I don't know. I can't really answer that one. It kinda spread out, too. I mean, I only had one brother that wanted to farm. The rest of 'em didn't want to farm. One of 'em worked in a post office, the other one farmed a little bit. But it takes money to farm today. You know, I mean, it takes a lot of money. Remember a long time ago you just had a wheelbarrow and a rake and you're in the farming business. But today, it's altogether different. That's it.

<Begin Segment 14>

DG: Can you tell us... I'm asking because we are going to use this for the memorial. And specifically we have that story wall and the walk that you took to get -- that everyone took to get on the ferry when you left. Can you tell me more about that day, which was March 30, 1942, when you had to leave your house, to go away? Can you tell me what you were feeling and what it was like?

AS: Gee, I don't know. It, it was hard on my folks. The kids, I don't think took it that hard. That's my thinking. You know, I was, what was I, nineteen at the time? You know how I was, I was just a "Joe Blow," I mean, I was just a nobody. It didn't bother me, really. But my folks, it took a toll on the folks. 'Cause a lot of 'em down there passed away when they got down there. And you know, the summer heat and I'm telling you, that summer heat'll kill you down there. Well, it's right next to Death Valley. I don't know.

DG: Did you have friends that came to see you off or came to your house to say goodbye?

AS: Came to my house?

DG: Yeah, like Caucasian friends that didn't have to leave?

AS: Well, there was no room in the house. Where were you gonna move? All it is is... you know the barracks were only about sixteen feet wide and you got bed here, bed here, bed here. All it is is you come in and sit on the bed. No room. No living room, nothing. Tar paper on the outside and... I mean...

DG: What did you do with your time?

AS: On the farm?

DG: In camp.

AS: My dad worked on a farm in the camp, but I worked for my cousin on the farm. You know, he was harvest... they raised the, what was it, potato, sugar beets, stuff like that. Then my dad worked on the camp farm. They raised, they raised a lot of watermelons there.

DG: In the desert?

AS: Yeah, they, well, they exported it because they had so much there. So they made money on the farm, they didn't lose money. But do you know how much we got paid? Twelve dollars a month. And then I made camouflage net for the army. That was twelve dollars a month. For a whole month now. I, I couldn't see that. Make all that camouflage net... you know how much that cost? Then I left there, that was enough for me. I can't... I think I made dollar sixty cents an hour, or something like that, when I was workin' on the farm. But that's better than twelve dollars a month.

<Begin Segment 15>

DG: Do you remember how you were treated by non-Japanese once you were outside of the camp?

AS: What's that?

DG: When you were working on the farm, on your cousin's farm, did you ever interact with, like, non-Japanese? And how were you treated?

AS: On the farm?

DG: Yeah, or was it Moses Lake?

AS: Oh, I was in Weiser.

DG: Oh, Weiser. How did the community there treat you?

AS: Well, some places were bad and some places were bad. Like I, I went to Montana, too. They wouldn't even let us in the grocery store. You know that? It's hard to believe, isn't it? So we went to Safeway and Safeway said, manager says, money... he didn't care what money came from, who it came from, so we bought, bought our groceries at Safeway. It was an I&P, I think it was an I&P that kicked us out of there. Well, I didn't do nothin' wrong. But you can't do that to a Hawaiian, you know, a Japanese. We had one in Montana there, he was lookin' at the magazine and the guy kicked him out. He says, "We don't want no Japanese in this store." And that Hawaiian, he picked up the whole magazine rack, threw it up in the air. [Laughs]

DG: What happened to him?

AS: They just kicked him out of the store. But he took the whole rack and... he was a big guy, you know, I mean, he was a he was a big Japanese. You weren't gonna fool with him. He took the whole thing, lifted... [laughs]

<Begin Segment 16>

DG: And can you tell me about, Lucy wants to hear more about farming with your horse. Because you said you had to use your horse to farm...

AS: The what?

DG: Farming with your horse. You had...

AS: Oh, yeah. I'm the only one, 'cause we couldn't buy nothing because we had to pay for the land. I think it was 1953, or somethin' like that that I, that was the last, I got rid of the horse then. I bought a tractor.

DG: So what did you use your horse for?

AS: Huh?

DG: What did the horse do for you? What type of work?

AS: I sold it to a Filipino, another Filipino was farming. But that... everybody else had tractors, I didn't. All, you know... Koura brothers, Terashitas, Hayashidas, all had tractors. They didn't have horses. But actually, there's nothing wrong with horse farming, I think it's better for the ground. That's my opinion.

DG: Why is that? Why is it better for the ground?

AS: Well, you don't pack the ground like, you know, with all that heavy tractor, and smash the ground down, make it muddy, and... I don't know.

DG: It was just one horse?

AS: We had two horses. Just, you know, for plowing and somethin', one horse wasn't enough. You gotta have two horses. But farming was different then, you know, before the war. We didn't have irrigation, right? So, before the farming, before the war farming was different than it is today. We got irrigation system and we'll water the berries and stuff. You know, just like your grandmother did, too. She... well before the war, we didn't have no thing like that, so we had to cultivate our strawberries every week to keep the moisture up on the root zone of the strawberries. If you didn't, it'd dry out a lot faster. But, if you cultivate, it brings the moisture up, you know, to a certain extent. So... that was my job, cultivating all the time behind the horse. [Laughs]

[Interruption]

DG: What, tell me what cultivating is specifically. What did the horse, and, was it just plowing, or...

AS: It was just cultivating... just scratch the top. What happens is, when you build a crust on there, it dries out faster than if you had a mulch on top to keep the moisture there. It dries out a lot faster. So, if you cultivate it, it doesn't dry out as fast. But, you know, if you don't get much rain, then you're hurt. But if you get rain, then you're in fine shape. You know what I mean? But, we don't do it that way now, today. We just water the...

DG: Well, what do you think is better for the land? To irrigate or to...

AS: I think cultivating just, just do it natural, natural way as possible, I think, but I don't know. I don't know, maybe I could be wrong on that part. I can't really tell you on that part of it.

DG: Is part of your land still cultivated or do you irrigate everything, now?

AS: Yeah, now it's all irrigated. Like my pumpkin. I wouldn't have no pumpkin today if I didn't irrigate. There's no way. It takes a lot of water.

DG: Yeah, my kids would be upset if you had no pumpkins. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 17>

DG: Now, can you tell me more about the grange and what was the grange and when was it that the Japanese and the Filipinos were not...

AS: The what?

DG: Tell me about the grange.

AS: Grain?

DG: The grange.

AS: Oh, grange? Well, they didn't want us in there so that was it.

DG: And what was the grange?

AS: Huh?

DG: What was the grange?

AS: You know, Four-H grange. You know what a grange is. It's a farm thing. You know, they have it here now, even.

DG: And when was it that they wouldn't let you be a member? Was it before the...

AS: After the war. You know when we came back, grange got a good farm insurance policies. Well, you gotta join the grange to be, to become that farm policy. Yeah, they wouldn't, they wouldn't let us in there. Now, I heard they'll let us in. I says, "Fine then. You're not gonna get me in there. You already turned me down once." I, I'm pretty stubborn, at certain things, get it? And, this, this is real wrong, I thought. God, you come back from the army, you spend your time there and you come home and they turn you down? Isn't that somethin'? That's my motto: I don't care. But they say, "Well, you can get grange insurance soon as you join the grange, soon as you become a grange member." I said, "Okay, fine then, I'll become a granger, then" No, they turned us down. Turned us and Filipinos down. You don't believe that, do you?

DG: I do believe it, but why? Why, why did they do that, do you think?

AS: I forgot, I don't know why. Don't ask me. You serve your two years in the service and you come back and they turn you down. I'm a hard-headed man, get it? You could stomp on me so much, and I got stomped on that one too much for what I did. So I don't know. Now, we could join it. I says, "Fine, you're not gonna get me in there. You turned me down once, isn't that enough?" I don't know.

DG: Did the Japanese and Filipinos work together then and help each other because you couldn't...

AS: After the war? Not too much, not too much. 'Cause it was only three, four farmers left. We all went more independent. We planted, you know, we used to plant strawberry, we used to help each other out, and that, that disappeared because we got a machine planter and, you know, went more modern. You know, more modern things, and so... I don't know. That's enough, isn't it?

<Begin Segment 18>

Lucy Ostrander: What was the Japanese American community like before the war, in general? What sorts of things, cultural activities...

DG: Did you hear that? No?

AS: I didn't hear.

DG: Lucy wants to know about the Japanese community before the war, did you... other than farming and working, were there other social events that you did and attended?

AS: There was a lot of families here then. Wasn't there about fifty families? I think about fifty families, yeah. And you want to know about what?

DG: Like social, non-work related things. Social events, church, picnics...

AS: Yeah, they had a church there. We had a church down there in Winslow. Was it Hirakawa? Hirakawa, he was a... they did quite a bit of church things before the war. Then after the war it was disappeared more or less. Was nobody here, I mean. Did you talk to any of the Nakatas?

DG: We have not recently.

LO: Gerry.

DG: Oh, that's right, okay. Gerry Nakata. We did.

AS: Huh?

DG: We interviewed Gerry Nakata last February. So...

AS: See, he knows quite a bit, too. You know, he's same age as I am, about, so he knows quite a bit, too. And then there's Tad Sakuma, too. You know him? He know, he should know.

DG: I've talked with his son.

AS: Yeah. Oh, did you?

DG: Yes.

AS: I don't know none of his boys.

DG: That's a separate Sakuma family, right? Those are two separate families? Yes, and I think the Kato family, I think they farmed or they worked on the eastside in Bellevue, I think?

<Begin Segment 19>

DG: So, how did the Bainbridge community treat you before and after the war? You said that there were a lot of people who helped you and a lot of people who were against you. Can you think of more specific things on how people helped you after the war or how people did not?

AS: Well, there wasn't too many helpful, but some of 'em were on our side, I know that. But some of 'em were against us, too. Remember when they first let us free and come over here? There were some that didn't want us on the island. Did you know that? Huh? Or did you hear about it?

DG: I've heard. What, what did they do?

AS: Yeah, they didn't want us to come back on Bainbridge Island. And if it hadn't been for Walt Woodward, I don't think we'd be here. That's what I have a hunch, but I'm not... I can't say for sure. I mean, Walt Woodward helped us out a lot. I mean, he was, he was a man that fought it all the way. Ever since, the time, the day we left here until we got back. He was a, he was somethin' else. Then there's a few, there's a few families there that way, too. That really, you know, were on our side. But they always got talked, talked out of it at the end, remember? So, I don't know. [Laughs]

DG: Can you tell me a specific of what a family might have tried to do for you?

AS: The what?

DG: Tell me how a family might have tried to help you and then how were they talked down?

AS: Oh, I, they talked good about us. I mean, they didn't talk bad about us. They always talked good about us. What happened, and they felt sorry that... you could tell some families are two-faced and some of them were real honestly, backed up, you know. I was kinda surprised myself, but I thought I had a friend, too, in high school, but I found out later he was, he was against us. So, I did, I don't say nothin', I still say hello and everything. But, I find out what's really going inside, then it's a different story, again. Just like you, if they did, you know, if they did it to you, you would be upset, too. That's enough.

<Begin Segment 20>

DG: Oh, okay. Last question. [Laughs] Do you know about the memorial being built here?

AS: Huh?

DG: The memorial being built on Bainbridge Island, over Eagle Harbor?

AS: Yeah, I know...

DG: What do you... tell me what you think about that and what you think its purpose should be and how you feel about that.

AS: I don't know, it seems like they went overboard. But, that's my think-, you know, my personal. You don't have to believe what I say. I mean, I just say... I think it's a little bit overboard. The public is gettin' a little tired of it. Don't you think?

DG: I think some people who...

AS: Some people are complaining, aren't they?

DG: Oh, on Bainbridge?

AS: Yeah.

DG: A couple, few.

AS: Some. So, I think, I think it's a little bit overboard. That's my thinking. How much are they gonna spend on that?

DG: The budget right now is five million.

AS: Huh?

DG: Five million, I think.

AS: How much?

DG: I think five million.

AS: Five?

DG: They've raised, they raised money to purchase the land, and the two million has been raised to build the, the memorial wall.

AS: Holy... five million? Did you just say five million?

DG: Yes.

AS: Oh my God. I think you should send it for better cause. That's my thinking... I don't know. I'm just a hard head, that's all.

DG: Do you think there's a purpose in teaching others about what happened to you and your family and the other Japanese?

AS: Well, they're teaching it in the schools now, aren't they?

DG: On Bainbridge, but not...

AS: Oh, not, just Bainbridge? Oh, not other schools?

DG: Very few.

AS: Oh, they're trying to make it so it'll be in other schools? Oh, that's a different story, see? I'm, I'm one-sided here. I didn't know that. I think people should know what happened, that's for sure. 'Cause that was a wrongdoing. So, I don't know... people, people don't realize, just think about it yourself, that you had to pack up today and leave and... wouldn't that be a hassle? Well, it's same thing my folks went through. And they were up in age then, you know. They were up in their sixties or somethin'. I think it's different, you know. So, I don't know. That's enough? Don't say anymore. [Laughs]

DG: [Laughs] I think you're right, though, Akio. That's why we want to have you talking...

AS: Huh?

DG: The reason we want you talking and telling your story, is so people can understand what you went through. Because it's hard for people to understand. You were just a teenager living, you know, a farming life, and then you were forced to leave. And it, I think it's easier for people to empathize with you if they hear you tell your story, versus read about it or have me tell them. So, that... thank you. Thank you for coming and telling us.