Densho Digital Archive - Eiko Shibayama Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

DG: We're going to start, but we'll start off nice and easy and slow. So if you could just tell me about your family...

ES: Little louder.

DG: Tell me about your family and...

ES: Before the war?

DG: Before the war, like, who was in your family, what did your mom and dad do?

ES: They're all strawberry farmers, and we had to clear the land when we bought, bought the place. And I don't remember until I almost started school about my life, you know, at, at the house there. And all I remember is they had to clear all these land with, with horse, with the horse we had, and dynamite. And they had to clear cut all these trees. [Laughs]

DG: Can you tell me any stories that you remember as a young girl growing up on the farm? What, what sort of things did you do as a young girl?

ES: Oh, most of the time I, I didn't go out in the field very much, I was around the house, and I had to help clean. And my sister was the oldest person so she did most of the cooking, and I remember that she used to take clothes apart, you know, suits and thing, and she used to make clothes for me to wear to school. And as far as, you know, playing, I mean, we just played "kick the can," and we used to just throw the baseball back -- I meant the ball -- back and forth like we're playing baseball. And we had these... oh, I can't think of what else that... oh, I just remembered that when we were strawberry planting, that the... us young ones, they wouldn't let us help with the planting, but they let us put the plants in the hole that they had made, you know, for the, each individual plant. And the, the families used to help each other. I mean, we used to get together with two other families and do all the planting in the springtime, you know, all together. And then we'd go to their farm and do their planting of the strawberries. That's about the extent of how we helped each other. From then on, then we were kinda on our own to take care of the farm. And it was pretty difficult years. I mean, it was very... as far as feeding our family, we had six in our family, and my parents used to raise a lot of vegetables. And we, you know, didn't have... raised our own chicken. And then, too, when we're going, when we started school... you want that part of it, too?

DG: Yes. I'd love... tell me about school.

ES: I think when I was in first grade we were, I was kind of having kind of difficulty as far as my accent, you know, the teacher used to try to correct us on some of the words. But I would think that my feeling would have been hurt when they kept correcting us, but I never had that feeling, I don't know why. I guess the teacher was... did it in a way that she didn't make us feel like we were lower than the rest of the students. And I remember when we were misbehave, the teacher used to tap us with a ruler on our, on our hand. And the classmates, we really enjoyed our classmates. They were all very friendly, and I don't know, somehow we didn't have as many things as they had, like nice clothes and things like that, but I don't know, we just never felt like we were put down. They were just very good to us that way. And I enjoyed going to school because I didn't enjoy working on the farm. [Laughs] And then when school vacation come, we used, we could hardly wait to get back to school again because that was kind of our pleasant outlet of not having to work. And in the summers, we had to all get out there, pick berries from very early in the morning. And I didn't do that much picking because I used to come home and kind of help my sister do some of the cooking and things like that. But somehow during those years, I, I never had the feeling I had to complain. I don't know why, I would think that at that age if I didn't have anything I would complain. But, I guess it just never was in us to... we just accepted what we had and just made do with everything, with the things that we already had. And I used to envy some of the kids at school with their nice clothes and everything. But it's, it's something I just kept to myself and just accepted that fact.

DG: Did you have Caucasian friends that you played with?

ES: Oh, yeah. My neighbors were all Caucasian. Because we were on -- on that part of the island, I think we were, there wasn't too many. Most of them were located on the other parts of the island so we never got together. The only time we used to get together was after the harvest season. We used to have a big picnic. Bainbridge, they call it Bainbridge Picnic, and we all gathered and made a feast and had a big day of it. But... and then we used to have these Japanese movies at the, this hall in Winslow. It's not there, it's not there anymore, but I really don't know where they got the Japanese film, but my parents used to take us all to this Japanese film. But it's always, the kind were very sad and you cried because they were dying and things like that. But I don't know, we just... we went and I don't think we understood a lot of it 'cause it was in Japanese. But we used to be running around there in the dark. [Laughs] The kids used to be playing while our parents are watching.

<Begin Segment 2>

DG: Okay, can you tell me more about the language, like, that your parents spoke and that the kids spoke...

ES: All Japanese, mostly. I don't know how we understood, come to think of it, but they... but we didn't communicate that much with each other, actually, a lot of it. They used to communicate with each other but they didn't... I don't... 'cause I did more communicating with my own brothers and sisters than with my parents. They really didn't say that much to us. 'Course, we hardly saw them because they're working all the time out in the fields, and the only time we really saw them was when we had our meals together. So, I... yeah, most, it was mostly Japanese that they spoke.

DG: And the kids...

ES: And by motioning with their hands and things what they wanted done. And our chores were all kind of... we all kinda knew what to do. Like we used to pump, we had to pump water to fill our furo they call it, the tub, Japanese tub, and that was outside. And I remember every so many days we had to clean the tub out and fill it with fresh water. And then it was the, I think it was more my father and my brothers that kept the fire going under it to heat up the water. In between, in between, when we didn't, when we didn't go in the furo, we used to have a washtub, a big washtub in the house. And every night our parents made us wash up before we went to, went to bed. And we used to hate that, but, which we had to do it. [Laughs] And, let's see...

DG: Did you attend Japanese school?

ES: Oh, yeah, just, just before the war I went to Japanese school. So, only, it was only about a year or so, or maybe, yeah, about a year, and that was in Winslow. And there was a Japanese, there was a lady teaching our Japanese there. And that was on Saturday, Saturday morning we used to go there. And our parents made us, wanted us to learn the Japanese. But, I don't remember my parents ever trying to learn English from us. I don't... but I remember studying every, every, about couple days before we went to class on Saturday, I remember we had to study our Japanese books then. And I really didn't learn that much, because it was only once a week. And after that was over, that class was over, we kind of forget, you know. So, that's about it on the Japanese school.

DG: So, do any of your brothers or sisters know any Japanese?

ES: Oh, I think my sister knew the most, 'cause she was the oldest. No, I don't... they knew the very basic language, you know, like eating and how to say goodbye and things like that. But not to actually carry on a conversation. And then when other of our parents' friend used to come over, they used to speak all Japanese, but we couldn't understand lots of what they were saying. But, we just never had the real urgency to learn the Japanese language.

<Begin Segment 3>

DG: Can you tell me more, more... you talked about going to the movies and playing in the yard with your friends. Are there any other things you remember doing for fun as a child?

ES: No, we didn't really get to socialize much with each other. It was just at school and we used to go to Seattle once in a while for shopping together with a friend. But we did all our, most of our shopping through the Sears catalog or the Montgomery catalog, all our school clothes. We really used to look forward to -- after the harvest season -- to order clothes for our school. We will each get maybe two or three items and a new shoe or something like that. We used to really look forward to that. But as far as socializing with each other, no, we didn't. We just socialized with, with our own family, 'cause we really didn't have time to be traveling with a car to see a friend, you know, 'cause that would cost money, too. So it wasn't until getting close to just before the war when everybody was doing better and were able to spend more time and get together and play sometime, go to the friend's house and, and go bike riding. We'd just talk and stay overnight, sometime.

DG: And how much, approximately, how much before the war had your family moved to Bainbridge Island?

ES: Had they what?

DG: Before the war, about how much time went by before they... well, sorry. How, how long had your family lived on Bainbridge Island and farmed on Bainbridge Island before the war?

ES: Well, that was from... oh, I guess I should look in the, my book there. 1914, I think, they were here. That I have to look up on the biography. [Laughs] I didn't bother to look that part up.

DG: And did your parents purchase the land?

ES: No, they were, they had to rent. They were renting at first. And then, like my brother said, through the war years, the owner... we didn't have to pay rent as long as we were in camp, because he knew we couldn't afford to pay rent. And then I think he was saying that... he said something about... oh, this I'll have to look, look up again. I, I was reading through it once, but I can't remember. Something about he... the owner says, "As long as you just pay the interest on the amount you owe us," he would let, let us go for all those years that we were in camp. So he was a wonderful landlord, I mean, he really bent over backwards to, so we wouldn't lose that land. I mean, he could have just taken it from under us, but he didn't. So we were very fortunate we had a landlord like him.

<Begin Segment 4>

DG: So, yeah, we'll go ahead and move forward to, to when the war began, and December 7th, Pearl Harbor. Can you remember -- you were a young girl -- but can you remember what you were doing when you heard the news and what your feelings were...

ES: It was on the radio. And I don't remember my family... it didn't really hit me right away. I just heard there was war and then I didn't realize what war was, really. I mean, you know. And it seemed so, so much, you know, the distance seemed so far away that it just didn't seem to hit me at first until I heard these stories about, about having to move, maybe move. Or people were having strong feelings against the Japanese, a lot of the Japanese families. And I think... I mean, it still didn't really, really get to me yet. I really didn't feel it. I grant you, I might have been a little bit scared, but we're so... thing in our own home, just, we didn't hear what's happening all around us. So I, that part I don't...

DG: Do you remember what it was like to go to school after Pearl Harbor? Had anything changed?

ES: No, not really. There was no, there was no name-calling or anything like that. We just... they were still friendly to us, and no, there was not that much of a change. I didn't feel that much of a change there. Because somehow the people that we went to school with are... I think it was such a small class, we were very close to each other, you know, we knew each one pretty well. I mean, we just... friends are friends, and we thought... we didn't think otherwise that they weren't our friends.

DG: And do you remember at that time, your older brothers and sisters, the conversations or discussions they might have been having about...

ES: No, they never, they never said they had any hard time at the high school level. Somehow it was just a close-knit community. That we didn't... I guess because everybody knew each other and what they were like. So they... I don't think they ever had that kind of feeling of doing harm to us or that, that we were the enemy, something like that. There might have been some that maybe didn't care for us, but they never said anything to us, they just kinda stayed clear of us, that's all. But there was just very few of those, it seemed like. So on the whole, I think, I don't know. I just felt we were very lucky we were in a community like that.

<Begin Segment 5>

DG: So also at this period, now after Pearl Harbor, and the United States is at war, the FBI started coming around and having FBI roundups of a lot of male heads of households. Can you tell me what you remember of that and if that affected your family?

ES: Well, that part I don't remember either. I just remember my father was taken away for a while, and that we had to clear a lot of the... I forgot what they were saying, the things we had to clear out of the place and get rid of or something. Whether our, our, some of our Japanese neighbors told us that, or told my parents that. I'm sure they were communicating each other, with each other more than they did with us. They just went ahead and did all these things, lotta time without even mentioning it to us. I don't know if it's to protect us or to not scare us, that, that I don't know. But I remember that they did more communicating with each other of their own, the other Isseis, more than us.

DG: And so, do you remember at all how you were feeling while your dad was away? Or...

ES: No. I think just my mother told us he was away, and they did it so quietly, I don't... I don't really remember that part. Maybe it'll come back to me, I don't know. I should ask my brother about that, yeah, 'cause I really... maybe he could refresh my memory with that. 'Cause he was older and then they... so my sister and my brother would be more attuned to those things than I, I would have been. Since I was second from the youngest, they seemed like they always kind of tried to shelter me or protect me. I don't know why, but that was the feeling I always had.

DG: And how long was your dad away for?

ES: Well, after we got to Manzanar, it wasn't too long that he was returned to us. So he didn't travel with us on the way down. But when we got there, then... it wasn't too long, I just remember. That's another thing I have to find out... how many days. But I, I kind of vaguely remember it wasn't that long.

DG: And do you remember what it was like when he returned?

ES: When he was what?

DG: When he returned? What was that like?

ES: He didn't say much about what happened. And I don't remember what part, to the area that he was sent to either. I mean, that I don't remember either.

<Begin Segment 6>

DG: So now we'll go back to your family, and the United States is at war, and now the Executive Order is posted that you have to leave Bainbridge Island. And can you tell me what you remember and maybe what you remember feeling once you realized that you were going to have to move?

ES: Well, I think the hardest part was trying to gather up the things that we were gonna take. I mean, what were we supposed to take? We owned very little things that we had to take. And so my parents, I kind of remember them having to store a lot of things because the neighbor was going to move in to our house and take care of the farm for a while, because it was strawberry planting time. I think they already had planted the berries and so they were supposed to do the first year crop. And I think they... I don't remember destroying too many things, or, you know, that we... well, we didn't have that much to begin with, I mean, a lot of things to store, but our personal things, our pictures and things, some of those things. And I think some of the... was it some of the dishes she had? Anyway, when the, the family stayed there for a few years and did the work, and then they wanted to move back to their own house, and so the house was vacated. And so lotta things were taken out, quite a few things were taken. When we came back, there was, there was nothing there. But we salvaged some of the pictures and things, I guess it was of no value to people to take the pictures. But, yeah, so I just remember them, my folks did most of the packing for us, I mean, they just did it quietly and told, told us how much, you know, we could pack. So we took very few things. I don't even remember what I took in the suitcase. But like I said, we didn't have that much, that many things that we had, you know, that were of value or anything. So, when, when that order came through, we just accepted it. It wasn't right for us to accept it, but we just... we didn't, you know, through, always used to be obedient to our parents. So that's what we did; they told us what we had to do, so we did it.

DG: Do you remember what you were told and what you understood was happening?

ES: Well, they told us we were gonna have to move, we're gonna have to leave the place. But I don't remember them mentioning that we'll be going to a certain camp. But they must have told us that, too, but we were just, accepted that. In, in a way, it was kind of a new experience for us because we've never done anything like that before. So we didn't... in a way it was kinda, we were kinda looking forward to that part of it, 'cause we don't know what, what was gonna happen. There was no fear at that time. I mean, they didn't scare us into it. I mean, they just told, told us that we were gonna have to move.

<Begin Segment 7>

DG: Do you remember how it felt to be leaving, saying goodbye to friends?

ES: Well, especially the, because of our, a lot of the classmates were, they're there at the landing, they were watching us get on. You know, that part... yeah, it has it's... you had that kind of a lost feeling that you're leaving a place. I don't remember crying or anything, but I just remember them saying goodbye. So it's just... we figured, well, we'll probably be back. We weren't looking that much to the future, what's going to happen to us? We were wondering what the... where we were going, what are we, what are they gonna do? And, and at that age, I didn't think much more about it. Just accepted what they said, told us to get on the ferry and we got on the ferry, get to Seattle and get on the train. That's the first time a train ride for us, so, in a way, that was kinda exciting. 'Cause we didn't know... it was something very new to, to me. And then the soldiers at... the convoys that took us from the house to the ferry, to the ferry landing... they, they were really great, they're really nice, and they really treated us well. So that made, all the more, made you feel better about it. If they had just hauled us and hauled us out there and just handled us roughly or something, we'd have thought differently, but they were so... they were very, very good about it. So that part, I really appreciated that part.

DG: What do you remember of the train ride?

ES: Yeah, it was a nice train ride. Because it was by Pullman... I think it was by Pullman because they had seat facilities in there and everything. And they had nice meals and... we had to keep the windows all drawn down, I mean, the shades down, because they didn't want any light or anything to go through there. But the train ride itself was very nice, it was a very pleasant ride. And kinda exciting in a way, 'cause it's the first ride we ever had.

DG: And do you remember, then, the bus ride after that?

ES: The bus ride? Yeah, we had to get onto the bus to get to Manzanar. And, oh, that was quite a sight. [Laughs] It was so different from, you know, what you expect, you never seen anything like that, all barren land, only these barracks going up and just desert. We thought, "God, we're gonna live here?" [Laughs] But, I don't know, once they got the barracks up and everything... it was really crudely made. It was all one room and had to make our straw mattresses and had to divide it by using blankets. The whole family was in one big barrack and you just made do what you have to do. If you want to divide it, you divide it with a blanket, that's it. Then to the... when we went out for meals, we had to go out to this one main mess hall. We had these little tin plates that has a handle on it, just like army plates, and you go around, it's kinda like they serve you. You go down the line. They serve you and most of the time we used to eat with our own friends, so we didn't eat with the family very much. 'Course, like my parents, I think, were helping in the kitchen then. I mean, they were helping cook. Everybody had to help, especially the older ones. So most of the time that we went out to meals, we went with our friends. So I hardly ever went with my brothers or sisters to eat together, or with my parents. It was mostly with our own friends that we went out. And I remember attending... well, when I went there I think we, as recreation, we went to fellowship. They had some fellowship, church fellowship, that they were running, and we used to attend that. And they had, used to have concerts outside, out in the, I think they called it firebreak, where you bring your own blankets and lay there and listen. We used to do that. And then, and then when we first got there, we had missed school since we got there April 1st, in '42, we were gonna miss school for two months, so then when we got down there we had to finish up. They sent the material, I think, from, from the school, for us to finish up. And some of the older brothers and sisters and, in the block there, would help us with the schoolwork. So we were able to at least get that credit for that schoolwork. And then I understand that the older ones that were ready to graduate, they also had correspondence for them from the school so they could get their credit that way. So that was April, May, and June, so that was two months for us, 'cause we were there from April 1st, at Manzanar.

<Begin Segment 8>

DG: And can you tell me about your friends at Manzanar?

ES: We, we were all in the same block. So we stuck together, pretty close together, we went to church together, we used to play together. We used to go to this recreation hall where they had, oh, they had some singing sometime. And then I used to play what they call sticks, pick-up sticks and things like that, marbles. There's this one girl says, "Yeah, don't you remember playing jacks?" you know that, you bounce the ball and you pick up... I said, "Well, that I don't remember, but I probably played it." 'Cause there was a recreation hall where you can do... play with all these games. At least they furnished some recreation for the kids.

DG: So how was camp different for you as a seventh grade young girl compared to living on Bainbridge Island at that time?

ES: The seventh grade? You mean the schooling?

DG: Well, everything. How was life different for you now that you were at Manzanar?

ES: Well, there wasn't... I don't think the learning power was as great. I meant, they were more strict at the regular school that we went to. Otherwise, I didn't think, I didn't compare that much. It's just that I felt that I didn't learn as much for some reason. I mean, I didn't apply myself. I didn't take myself so seriously there as I would have at home. I think we were out to have kind of... enjoy ourself, to have more fun than studying, to me, at that time.

DG: And you started to run around with a group of, of girlfriends...

ES: Yeah, when we moved into camp, we did, 'cause we were all in the same block, so somehow we just stuck together. And then we didn't... since we were in Manzanar, we were the only one from the Northwest here, and so the others from California used to kind of think we were kinda snobby or something 'cause we wouldn't affiliate with them. But somehow we just... the people from the Northwest just stuck together, more closely together. They were kinda different from us, I mean, their attitude and things, I thought. And the way they dressed, it was different from... so I think, I think that's why we kinda was always together, stayed together a lot.

DG: And can you tell me more about the 7-Ups? How you got.. how, why they were called the 7-Ups?

ES: Oh, that we don't know yet. Because we figured somebody must have called us -- since they see us together all the time -- they called us 7-Ups one time. But no one seems to kind of remember. We were kinda talkin' about that one time and no one seems to remember how we happened to get that name. But, you could imagine, we were always together, the seven, so they just happened, maybe somebody just mentioned seven, so we says, why not call us 7-Ups, I guess. So that's something we don't know yet, maybe we could eventually find out, but I really don't know.

DG: Did you call yourselves the 7-Ups?

ES: Yeah. [Laughs] 'Cause we're still together.

DG: And what sort of things did you do together?

ES: You mean when we were down there?

DG: Uh-huh.

ES: Well that's... we went to fellowship together and concerts and to each other's place, just visiting. And I don't think we did... I remember going to a dance, just sitting at... we couldn't dance so we just watched, our, our older people, watching them dance. But no, we didn't do that much. Like birthday party and things, I figured that we didn't start that until we went to, moved to Hunt. Because, you know, Manzanar, we weren't there that long. But when we moved to Hunt, we started doing things more together. In Hunt we were stuck way at the end of the block, too, and then... so when we had to go down to the school we all went together because, we just somehow came together 'cause we're all going to the same place. [Laughs]

DG: And so were you close friends before the war and before camp?

ES: We knew each other, but we didn't know each other that well. I mean, we didn't get to see each other that often. But we knew, yeah, we knew each other. Except Kiyo was the one, she was, I think she lives quite a ways... I think she was in Crystal Springs somewhere, so that was quite a bit out of the way. But, and she -- her and another girl went to another school on that end of the island. So, we, we knew them, but then we weren't as closely affiliated as with the girls that went to the same school in Winslow. Well, we still knew they were there. We knew them and they were the same age as us. So I think we came together more closely in camp, when we were in camp.

<Begin Segment 9>

DG: So can you tell me more about the differences between Manzanar and Minidoka, when you moved there?

ES: Well, I think we were more at ease in, in Minidoka. Because in Manzanar, when they had all the riots and thing, it was, it was kinda... I think it was a traumatic time. 'Cause we never ever went through anything like that, and we never knew anything happening like that. But Hunt was more, I think more our kind of people... the way they dressed and their, their attitude. And so I think, I think we felt more at home there. So I'm kinda glad we, they did move us back where we... with the people that we grew up with over here in the Northwest.

DG: Do you remember any of those riots at Manzanar, and how that made you feel?

ES: Well, I myself just remember that... the news of it. But they wouldn't let us, our parents wouldn't let us go near there or anything like that. But, yeah, there was quite a lotta noise that was made about that, and we just heard about it. So I don't remember what I really thought at that time. I'm sure we were, I'm sure we were afraid, 'cause it wasn't too far from our block. But otherwise, I don't remember getting close to it or anything like that. Just hearing about it was about it.

DG: And were any of your brothers in the military?

ES: Uh-huh, three of them.

DG: Do you remember how your parents handled having...

ES: Yeah, that's what I was kinda wondering, too. I... when they left, there was... I don't, I really don't remember. They said they were gonna leave and they had to leave. And so again we just accepted, you know. But I don't remember my parents saying not to go or anything like that. I think they felt that they should go. But, yeah, the communication was really not that great at that time. I don't remember what they said to them. I think my brother would remember, but I don't... they just didn't tell us younger ones -- [laughs] -- for some reason. I don't know if they didn't want us to worry or what. Well, I really don't know. That I'll have to look more into that, too.

<Begin Segment 10>

DG: So can you tell me more about what you did, what Minidoka was like for you, and school there and...

ES: Well, I, I really didn't learn that much there. A lotta time, there was some friction with the teacher with the student. I don't know if their attitude, what their attitude was like, but they didn't like the teacher. They would kinda make a ruckus in the room. And then, in fact, the one class, the one teacher almost had to handle him physically. And he was making fun of the teacher. But most of the time, it went pretty smoothly, all the classes. But I noticed when I came back for my junior year at my regular school, that it seems like I was kinda far behind, as far as, especially English. I was having a little harder time on those subjects. But otherwise I feel back here, too, they didn't learn that much either during the war years, so it wasn't that far behind. The teachers were okay there. Some of the teachers, like the math teachers, was pretty good, I thought. And we had to learn sewing there, I remember. [Laughs] And otherwise it wasn't that much different. We went to class. But the only thing I remembered is since we lived way at the end of the -- Hunt, Idaho -- the last block in the camp, so we had a long ways to walk down to the school which was in the middle of the camp. And we were on Block 44, and in the winter it was really cold to walk. And we always tried to get a ride home on the convoys, and a lot of the convoys were full, with students. Sometime we really had to walk in that cold weather. And I thought, gee, that was, that was pretty miserable for me. And I used to envy those people that lived near the school, 'cause they just walked there and just walked home, and here we had to all that, many blocks to walk.

But they had lotta activities at school, they had clubs and things like that. But I don't remember joining that many. 'Cause... because we did live way up in the other block and it was harder for us to get to and from to the different activities. But we did attend church and things like that. Because that was an option open to us that we could go to. And we used to go see movies in the recreation hall. And I remember taking all these pine nuts -- I don't know, pine nuts, why it was so plentiful then, but we used to take it into the movie house and be cracking, eating pine nuts all the time. Not popcorn, but pine nuts. [Laughs] Let's see, what else did we do? I don't, I don't remember actually working in the camp, like some, some of the kids did. I mean, they got jobs, I guess.

But I remember going out to the farm labor camp, right after the summer, for the harvest season of apples and onions and potatoes. And we used to stay at this, what they call farm labor camp, where the farmers would come with their trucks and pick you up, and then we'd go out there for the whole day. And we did quite well in the potato, onion, but for some reason, the apples, we weren't very successful in picking apples. I don't know if it's because of our, I don't know if it was because we weren't tall enough to reach a lot of the places, but we did much better in the onion and sacking the potatoes and things. And since we were together then... some of the seven girls were together, not all of us. But one of the seven girl's parents, mother, came out to cook for us at the camp. You know, when you come in from the harvest, you're very tired, and for her to have the meal ready for us is really nice. And so, they, I think they let us out of school for that short time in order to get the harvest, for the war, harvested. So, I think we did that. I think we did that several times, or two times.

<Begin Segment 11>

ES: And she, and one girl mentioned that, something about... I couldn't remember whether I went swimming or not. She said we used to go swimming in the canal. And I don't know why we took a chance in there, 'cause it was kinda dangerous. Because some people did drown in there. I mean, that's the only place you could go swimming. And I remember parents, our parents, using these... since we didn't have much furniture, they used to take these roots or these old woods and make carvings of tables and, and lamps, and stuff like that. It was, when I think of it now, it was really amazing. They carved it out and they varnished it. And where they got the tools, I don't know, 'cause I thought we couldn't have those kind of tools at first. But I guess later on they let up, so I guess you could order it through the catalog. And so they did some amazing work there, and some beautiful garden that some of them made. I was really amazed that from nothing they built all these beautiful gardens, between the barracks. And even today, I think we brought some back that my father had done, too. And I never knew he could do such a thing like that. Those Issei just did it, and they never thought much about it. They didn't think it was much of an accomplishment, they just did it because they had the time. So I thought, gee, that was great. I would have never done that. [Laughs] I would be so mad, I thought, "Oh, I don't have no tools, I can't do this." But they did with what they had, and that kind of amazes me.

And we used to go to more birthday parties in Hunt, too. We used to invite each other, write invitation, and try to make it real elaborate and best as we could, and exchange gifts. And I remember doing baton, trying to learn the baton. This one girl was teaching us, and oh, that was fun. Another incident in Manzanar, when we were in Manzanar, we, we joined this group of tap dancers, and they were called the Manzanettes. There were about sixteen of us and we all had taken tap dance lesson. And we did this, had this talent show, we did it, and we all had the same dresses and stuff. And I really remember that, that was really fun. Got to tap dance, first time, in front of people. That was kind of exciting. Well, I think mainly it was wearing those... all the dresses were the same. You know, looks nice when you're up on the stage and everybody's got the same thing, they're doing the same steps. So that was, that was fun. Oh, and then Hunt, too, I think we used to... there used to be a fad on clogs, you know, these wooden clogs. Because, you're off the ground and then when it's icy and snowy and things, that's kinda nice shoe to have for walking. And I, I remember, I don't know why, but I remember those shoes that we really liked wearing. It was something new. I don't know where we got it from, whether it was a catalog, I, that I don't remember. But, we had fads there, too. Like in Manzanar, I think the hairdo was pompadours, they had it up real high. And when we came to Hunt, Idaho, they would say, "Oh, you could tell those people that came from California, they all got high pompadours." [Laughs] So, they distinguish us from that. And they used to say, "All the Block 44 people." But, eventually they accepted us. We probably were different when we first got there, I'm sure. Yeah, some of those things are kinda things that happened, I guess.

DG: Those are all good stories. I like hearing about different things the young seventh, eighth, ninth grade girl experienced. Do you have any other memories of camp?

ES: Well, no, I don't... not really. '42, '43... oh, I can't think of it right now. There was... oh, I mentioned movies. We did go to movies and things. I don't know what we did during the day so much. Of course, most of our time was taken up in school. We come home, we had to study, so most of those weekdays, school days were pretty full up. But I remember having to go to the... we didn't have any laundry facilities in the barracks, so we had to go to this main, main place where they had all the laundromats and things -- not laundromats, they had to wash by hand mostly, yeah, by hand. And the bathrooms are there, too, but those bathrooms were much better. They had private bathroom, whereas in Manzanar it was just one long barrack. I don't remember even having doors on there. And then where you brush your teeth is just one long sink and, you know, there's faucet and everybody's rinsing and thing in the same, in the same trough there, or whatever. [Laughs] But at least in Hunt they had more privacy in the showers. In Manzanar, there was very... well, because it was a new camp and they were just building these buildings. I mean, we were one of the first ones there.. or, third ones, third block. We were Block 3, there's, 1 and 2 was already finished. And so there was still, everything was still pretty new. And the, and the buildings weren't built so the dust can... I mean, it wasn't papered so the dust wouldn't come through. All the dust would come through the cracks and stuff like that. So all that had to be, eventually, they did fix it up, little by little. And by then we were ready to move to come up to Hunt.

<Begin Segment 12>

DG: What was the food like?

ES: Oh, Manzanar wasn't very great. It just, it was just really the basics, cereal... I forget what else. A lot of hash, stuff like that. Not... there was quite a few that used to get ill or, you know, have runs and stuff like that. But in Idaho it was better. Everything was... I mean, we enjoyed it a little more. I mean, it was cleaner, it felt cleaner. And even then, I think we used to eat together there, too, not as a family, I mean it was... so that's the part that hurt the most, I think, we didn't eat with our family very much. We weren't able to talk with them all the time. If they were there, you didn't communicate that much. So when we came back to the island after the war, I thought, kinda... we lost that family feeling, until years later when we all had to do a lotta things together. Like we used to celebrate my folks' anniversary and stuff, then we came a little more together. And then we had our holidays together, we try to keep the family together. Those were... it was starting to get better. We started to become a little more like a family and try to keep together a little better. So, I think a lot of it, during the war, we did lose a lot of the family, family ties. 'Cause you could imagine right before the war, we... that's all we had was our own family. We played together because we couldn't afford to go to our friend's place to play, so we used to just play among ourselves. You know, like kick the can and throw the ball over the roof and say, "I caught it," and then you run around, and those kind of things. And we used to make, what do you call it, these tin cans, we used to make impression in there and put our foot in there and try to walk. Anything that was, didn't cost money that we could just play with there. So a lot of the social thing was within our own family, really.

But one thing I remember is I really wanted -- I don't know why I was so hung up on the piano. I really wanted to take piano lesson. And then this Japanese hall where we used to have the Japanese movies, they had a piano, and I used to kind of thing, I thought, "Oh, gosh, I wish I could take piano lessons." I know we couldn't afford it, but I used to really want to take, take piano. I don't know why. It just was kind of like an obsession to me, to want to learn the piano. So maybe I had some talent for piano, I don't know. [Laughs] But my mother wanted me to take violin. I said, "No, I don't want to take violin. I hate the violin. I'd rather take clarinet." So, I, I think they were willing to buy me a violin at one time, but I... that's one instrument I did not want to play. [Laughs] But the piano, I would, if they got a piano. And then I remember my girlfriend got one. I think this, was this after the war? I don't remember if it was after the war. But I, I used to envy them. I thought, "Gosh, they were lucky they got a piano." But, anyway, and then I remember my brother used to play the guitar, and I, I used to enjoy that. I guess I enjoyed music. I come, I come to realize now that... 'cause he, one brother really enjoyed playing the guitar and the harmonica. He used to enjoy that and I used to enjoy listening. 'Cause he used to, they used to all sleep upstairs and I slept downstairs. And our upstairs house is just, just an attic, and all the beds were lined up there and they all slept up there. And I slept downstairs with, with my parents. But I could... I remember he used to be practicing up there.

DG: What kind of music did he play?

ES: Well, I, I don't know what kind he used to play. Oh, more country, country music. But he must have had a thing for music, too, because otherwise he, I don't think he would have... none of my other brothers ever played, but he did. So evidently he must have enjoyed music also.

<Begin Segment 13>

DG: All right, so we're going to move forward again to... now the war has ended and the camps are closing, can you tell me what you remember about how your family, what your family did after the war ended and how they got back to Bainbridge?

ES: You mean in camp, while we were in camp?

DG: Yeah. While you were in camp and the war ends, what happened then?

ES: Well, I think they were saying that they heard news that we can go back, and they said that they wanted to go back to the farm. And so, I think -- oh, I know, my younger brother said he did not want to go back to strawberry farming. And, 'cause he didn't like that back-breaking work. So he wanted to go to where my sister was living in Eastern Oregon, and do potato farming, that type of farming was machinery equipment. And then Ak was in the service then, and Tosh was in the service, so it was just myself and my mother and father that went back. 'Cause my mother -- my sister was already married, she married during the war. So she said that they wanted to go back because they still owned the farm. And I kind of remember, 'cause my girlfriend said they were gonna go back to live in the city and that's where I would have liked to live is in the city, 'cause I was tired of country. I get tired of country living, I thought, "Oh, they have more fun out in the city," but I had to go back with them. And then... so when we went back there, there was nothing there, hardly, nothing there in the house. I mean, it was very... I think the only thing that was there was the stove. And we didn't have running toilets or anything either. I think we put that in later, as far as... I was wondering if we still had the furo then. No, I think they, they took that out, because the family that lived there never used it anyway. But there was nothing there, there was hardly nothing there. And that was, it was kind of depressing. I mean, we just had to start from scratch, I mean, there was, you know... but, it's funny, I didn't remember complaining then either. We just accepted that we had to do it, so we just forged ahead and got the farm going and weeding it and getting the farm back to, to plant strawberries and stuff like that. I don't know how we did it, really. [Laughs] I didn't know where they got the money even. They had to borrow all this money to, to buy all this stuff, but they did it, I don't know. I can't remember whether we, whether we even had a car at that time. And then in the meantime, finally when we were getting started, then my older brother came back from the service.

[Interruption]

DG: So let's go back to talking about after the war and you and your parents had returned and shortly then, your brother came back. I think this was Akio?

ES: Well, Ish was back there too, come to think of it. The other of the two.

DG: Okay, can you tell me what, how your brothers started working on the farm and ...

ES: Well, Ish was working on the farm but then he wanted to go do some truck farming. So he started that, but it wasn't very successful. He'd take our vegetables and sell it, go to the different homes and sell it. But he wasn't very successful. And so eventually he went out to Auburn to start his own farm because... let me see, what was it... oh, 'cause there wasn't enough business for both, all of us to be farming on the one land there, in order to survive, to make money. So he, he moved over there. And then my brother continued. Oh, and then my other brother came back and did it for a while, too, Tosh. He was in the service. But he came back and did it for a while, and then he got married, so he left the farm. So just, so it was just my older brother, my parents, and myself. And so after I graduated, then I... I didn't want to stay on the farm, so I... I mean, I stayed home, but then I went to business school for a while, then I went to the technical college to study shorthand and English and all that jazz. And then I went to work and I commuted for a while, and then eventually I started rooming with two of the 7-Ups girls in an apartment, so all three of us were working. And I used to come home on the weekends to help my mother because she still had to do a lot of washing and things like that. I knew it was very hard on her 'cause she's still working on the farm. And so I used to come home on the weekends and help her do that. And then, yeah, and then through the years they started doing better, and my father finally retired. And then, but my mother continued working, and they raised strawberries and what was it, raspberries and corn, especially corn, and she was, she was very busy all during her time working on the farm there. But she seemed to enjoy it and she stayed healthy that way. Although the one, one time she, she was pretty sick there for a while and then we thought we almost lost her. But this is a great doctor, he just brought her back to good health and she lived to be about eighty, what is it, eighty-six or something. So she did pretty good, and she stayed in the nursing home only about a month and she passed away. But she was... she led a good, active life.

<Begin Segment 14>

DG: Can we go back a little bit to right when you returned from camp back to Bainbridge Island, and can you tell me what you remember about how you were treated? Especially...

ES: Real good. I mean, I was kind of afraid to... in fact, my, the neighbor girl that I used to play with, she came up and welcomed me. She said, "I'm going to get on the bus with you. You come down there, and you know, I'll take care of you." And, sure enough, she did. And I got on the bus, and it was no different. It didn't, it didn't feel any... it just felt like I was there all the time. And she was, she was very... helped me at school to kind of get... show me where things are there at the high school and stuff. So that was great. And the others just welcomed us back and just continued life as if, as if nothing happened. [Laughs]

DG: Do you remember any, experiencing any prejudice or racism?

ES: No, well, only the one time I said, when I was walking down the hallway somebody yelled, "Jap." But that was only the one time and it never happened again. And that was... I, I, it hit me at first and then I thought, "Oh, forget it." It's just... somebody's feeling, but it never happened again. So it was a good feeling there. I mean, I really appreciate that school.

<Begin Segment 15>

DG: And so I guess this is along those lines, we're now currently building this memorial. Can you tell me what your feelings and what your hopes are for the memorial? What you hope it stands for and represents?

ES: Well, I think it's, it's a good thing for people to remember that this did happen, and to know that it happened to these people on the island here, a lot of them, and that they did suffer a lot and they lost a lot. And I don't... I think they should realize that it really shouldn't happen again, even to other races. Because a lot of people, I don't think they really care unless something like this is built like that. You know, they'll read it and look at it and said this actually happened. Although, if there's nothing there, they're not going to look it up in the archives or anything like that. But if it's there to see, I think that they would take it into account. And I think lots of time the, the schools mention it, too, I think. Or the National Park Service will say these things... there are things like that established there that people could go read and see that this actually happened. I mean, just like in D.C., all these things are written down and people go to see it and read it and they say, "Yeah, this really happened in this year." So I think that's important.

DG: And one of the reasons Bainbridge Island has been chosen for this site is because not only were you the first...

ES: Right, we were the first ones to move.

DG: But as well, I think... how do feel that Bainbridge Island was a unique community compared to what other Japanese...

ES: Yeah. I don't know why they chose us first. I don't know if it was more, we were more in danger zone of doing the, doing sabotage or what... I, that's something I don't understand, why it was the first.

DG: Some say because Bainbridge Island was an enclosed community, you were almost like a sample group. You were a small community that they could try making, forcing to make this move to see how it would go when they made everybody else go. I've heard that.

ES: Oh, see, I've never heard that.

DG: Well, and I guess, what I'm asking, too, is, is how do you think your experience, being part of the Bainbridge Island community, is different than say what people went through maybe who lived in Seattle or other, or even California?

ES: Well, I think, I think learning to be close to each other... I mean, somehow we don't see the others that often, but somehow when you mention them they're still part of us. Because we went through together on all these things, that we have a lot of things in common. Whereas in a big community, I think it's a little bit different. You don't know everybody, but like on the island, but if you mention anybody, we know, we know them all. And so we all traveled together, went to the same camp, went back to another, other camp, and we knew what a lot of their lives were like, you know, kids that got married and had kids. Who was now living here or living there. So...

[Interruption]

DG: So again, tell me about how Bainbridge Island was unique and that your community was unique compared to...

ES: Well, because we knew most of each other. We knew their families and the children. And we all went through so much together, a lot of the same experiences together. So, when we get together we could always talk about those kind of things that we went through. So, I think that's why we're... lotta people say, "Well, they're so, they're rather cliquish," but we couldn't help it because we just, when see each other we just talk about so many things: "How is your family and your brothers? They moved away, or where are they?" Those kind of things. And the schooling that they went to or what are they doing today, and so it's just that we know them better. It's like, I would think like part of the family. And all these get together, we had the picnics and things, we all shared together on those things.

DG: And how do you think the larger Bainbridge Island community also affected how your return was? So not just the Japanese community but the entire Bainbridge community...

ES: Yeah, I think that they really helped. I think the Niseis and Sanseis and Yonseis have spread out lot more. I mean, they're integrating into the community and I think that's great. I mean, because they have the financing to do it now, they're able, they have good jobs and I think it's because the Niseis did help to, to get them there to where they are. And so they're, I'm glad they're able to spread out and work into the community more and be exposed to a lot of these things, that they know there are Japanese there, so I think that's great.

DG: All right.

<Begin Segment 16>

DG: So tell me how, when you returned from the war, what was the reception like from the Bainbridge Island community? Not the Japanese that were returning, but how were you treated by people still here on Bainbridge Island, and how was that different?

ES: That was fine. I mean, I didn't, I had no complaints, I didn't feel anything.

DG: Do you think...

ES: Well, because we went to school, so we weren't that much involved in social activities of the island at that time. But as far as the school friends were considered, they, they didn't treat us any differently, it was just like before. Except the newer students, of course, we didn't know. But, we got to know some of them, too. There was just, there was just, yeah, there was just no animosity or anything. I don't remember...

Lucy Ostrander: Why do you think that is? Because in other communities there was animosity. What was different? What was unique about Bainbridge?

DG: Do you...

ES: Well, some communities, I think, had a more difficult time. And maybe it's because they didn't know them. That I don't know, but I know, yeah, I know I heard stories that some of them were saying, "No Japs allowed," and stuff like that. But, not on the island. I don't... didn't come across, maybe because we didn't attend a lot of these functions, we didn't know what it was like, I don't know. Of course, I was in school then, too, like I said, so I, at the school it was great. I didn't feel... the teachers were great, I enjoyed all the teachers. So it was a good feeling, I mean, when we came back. That I have to admit.

DG: All right. Is that good? [Laughs]

ES: Of course during the war too, that, the Woodwards had a lot of communication with the people in Manzanar, especially those, you know, like Sachi and them. Who else was in there? Ohtakis, they were writing back and forth, back and forth. He was telling the people on the island what it was like over there in Manzanar, so I think that helped, I mean, to let the friends know on the island what we were going through, that we were suffering also. So I think that... a lotta that helped, too.

DG: I had forgotten about that. That was...

ES: Yeah, he was, he was a great help. He really stuck up for the people. I mean, he didn't think it was fair that we were hauled off like that.

Male voice: And so he kept a connection going? He would publish reports in the newspaper?

ES: Yeah, he used to put it in the Review. I think he got a lot of flack from it, but that's what I heard. [Laughs] But he kept... that's what he believed in, so he stuck by his guns. So to this day, I give him a lot of credit for standing up the way he did, especially publishing a newspaper like that. I'm sure there was a lot of people that didn't believe in what he was doing, but I don't know if they eventually came through or not. But... I mean, 'cause there was no, not one sabotage done by Japanese people. So, look at nowadays, so many things happening, but not at that time. God, we had all these dynamite and everything, well, we never dynamited anybody's home. [Laughs] It was just for our matter of survival to clear the land, so that's why we had it. 'Course, all the shortwave radios or something, they confiscated, and all the cameras... that's right, we had all that taken. Except, I don't know how we had the box camera. We had that in camp, I don't know how we had that. But we took pictures in camp. Well, when we left here, they took all those things, so I don't know if we went and got it through the catalog or what. That I don't know, again. But we took pictures. [Laughs]