<Begin Segment 5>

TI: Let's go back to that package that you prepared with Kubota and the Kashinos. When it was all ready to go and you sent it off to the military, what did you get -- what were you guys thinking? Did you guys think that this was going to be a good package to get changes?

BT: Yes. When Kashino had first made his application, one of the response he got back was that, to strengthen his case he needed information about how that scuffle started. They asked for Chaplain Yamada's input, or the soldier who started the scuffle. Well, the chaplain had passed away several years before, so I told Sadaichi we had to contact the soldier who started the scuffle. And at first he was real adamant. He was mad about the whole thing. He didn't want anything to do with it.

TI: So the soldier who actually first hit the soldier -- did you talk with this soldier?

BT: Yes. I called him over the phone. And I told him what I was doing and about Kash's involvement, and he was very, oh, antagonistic. He said he wanted to bury the matter. As far as he's concerned, it's a dead issue. Well, I felt disappointed, little angry at his attitude, but I felt that over the years, because everyone seemed to think that he had started it, that the blame belongs with him. And looking at what had happened -- he was at the bar and I think that he was feeling no pain. And what happened was really a matter of circumstances. Instinctive, the way he brushed off the MP. And I don't think he realized fully what happened at the bar. No. So we had to -- his attitude that he wants to forget it. That he got a bum deal. I sort of agree with him, sympathize with him.

TI: But how did you convince him to come forward?

BT: No, it was Sadaichi and another I Company fellow that Sadaichi knows that went to see him, because over the phone, he brushed Sadaichi off, also. But Sadaichi and this other fellow, I think his name was Matsumoto, went over to see him personally. And then he finally relented and he gave a short statement. But he did admit that he had been the one to start the scuffle.

TI: Good. So you had this short statement from him.

BT: Yes.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1998 Densho. All Rights Reserved.