<Begin Segment 24>

SF: So before the civil rights or equal opportunity thing came, I guess in the, probably around the Johnson Era, right?

TS: Yeah, Johnson was the one that pushed it.

SF: What -- I mean, do you recall any incidences of where you think that there was a glass ceiling for you, or there was prejudice or...?

TS: Oh, I knew it, yeah.

SF: How -- what were some of those probable incidences that...?

TS: Well, one of the things is I wanted to get into personnel work, 'cause I knew how to -- well, I knew I could deal with people. And the department I was working for was the operating department. But someone told me, "Hey, there's no room for you in the (personnel) department." That on the whole railroad.

SF: They just, and, by telling you there's no room for you, that was, it was real clear what that meant?

TS: Yeah. Well, I knew what it meant. And then, I wrote like the personnel department because I knew how to do all the paperwork, and I, I got along well with people, basically. But there's no hope. But eventually, I, I got a shot at gettin' in the accounting department. So I went into accounting. There it just went fast. I got a job as -- ? Traveling auditor for... and then I used to travel to -- well, we went to Frisco on the Southern Pacific, audit their books, where they billed the Great Northern. So we make -- or the -- so they didn't cheat us. And they did the same thing to us. And then, went to Nebraska for the Union Pacific, then audited the Great Northern books in St. Paul, and certain portions of it. So went from there. And then, somehow, I don't know, I got a job as a, as an examiner for, with the payroll accounting, and worked in Seattle. That was a nice job, too. And, that was auditing in the local area. Not that much -- not too much traveling. Other one was tough because you were gone for two weeks away from home. Omaha -- for any -- because you can't, except in, when I went to Whitefish, they were good enough. I could fly back every week, so I got home every weekend from Whitefish. And then, eventually, from there I went to the payroll accounting. And I got examiner job and then assistant manager, assistant manager in Portland for -- where I met another nice boss by the name of Jim Boyd. And he really trained me well. So when he retired, I got his job as the manager of the Portland office. And then this guy in Seattle got promoted back to St. Paul, and so they sent me up to Seattle, and I, as a senior manager, which means I had the Seattle office plus authority over the Portland office. But then, Portland got a guy that I knew that, well, hell, he knew ten times more than I did 'cause that's all he did his whole railroad career is accounting. So Portland, I didn't have to even think about.

Then time came -- what was it -- ? An eighty-day -- started this offering money for retiring? And I thought for a second, and well, for a little longer than that, I thought, "Egads, my next move, if I get promoted, I'd have to go to St. Paul, Galesburg, Illinois, or a better job, I'd have to go to Fort Worth, Dallas." And I said, I thought, "Ah, do I wanna do that? Is it worth the money?" I mean, you get a nice raise. And when they move it's no problem because they send a moving crew and they pack everything up for you, they load up. It's easy. But I thought, "God, that means probably my kids'll be on the Coast and I'll be someplace else." So I thought, "Well -- "and then a thing came up, they just, and needed me -- I says, "I'd be willing to accept that," blah-blah. I went back to Saint Paul, and then couple bosses says, "Why do you wanna leave?" And I just said, "Well, I guess I just wanna take life a little easier." 'Cause being Buddhahead, I was always the first on the job, last one out.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 1998 Densho. All Rights Reserved.