<Begin Segment 20>

SF: Well, you described this kind of competitiveness that the Japanese, and particularly, I guess, the Niseis had. Was that kind of like what you would call racial pride? I mean, how would you describe what, I mean how they thought of -- how these Niseis, and Isseis, thought about themselves in the kind of racial hierarchy of the times.

TS: I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know the background why. But I remember the first time we went out on a gang, that's when we noticed it. And I -- they'd run with their jacks, then brrrrrrrrr, stick it in, click-click-click-click. And they'd raise the track, and then you're tamping away. And it's sort of a -- I think it makes the day go faster, too.

SF: Well, did they feel that they were superior to other groups, or I mean...

TS: No.

SF: ...would the people say...?

TS: No. I don't think there's any sense of feeling a superiority. It's just the matter that, just the way we're raised, I guess. I guess maybe if you're on a farm, it's, trying to see who bags the most potatoes or...

SF: So you had these white crews who were made up of poor folks, a lot of them alcoholics?

TS: Yeah.

SF: And then you had the white bosses who were above, as it were...

TS: Yeah.

SF: ...the Japanese crews. So was there kind of a class distinction? I mean, did people say, "Ah, those winos were" -- they didn't -- they indicated some negativity toward them because they didn't take baths every day and, or were dirtier?

TS: No. We didn't make any negative -- well, (possibly) we did. "Winos," we'd call 'em. But it was just a pattern of their life, and it wasn't reflective of the white race or population. It just -- the real poor whites that -- and most of 'em were alcoholics. And they'd go least two weeks without drinking. So they'd earn some money, so go back into town and -- kinda felt sorry for 'em, really. But that's just the way they were.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 1998 Densho. All Rights Reserved.