Densho Digital Archive - Isami Nakao - Kazuko Nakao Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

DH: This is an interview with Isami and Kazuko Nakao who are more familiarly known to Bainbridge Islanders as Sam and Kay Nakao, and we're interviewing them in their home on Bainbridge Island for the Densho Project, and today is June 18th. Sam, let's start with you, and you were telling me how your family first came to came to America in 1900.

IN: Uh-huh.

DH: Tell me how it happened.

IN: Well, my grandfather liked his sake [Laughs] and he eventually started to lose the family holdings. And my dad, who was the only son, was to be the heir to the whole thing. But seeing that my grandfather was signing notes for, you know, being a good fellow that he was, he signed notes for other people and eventually, well, a good part of the family holdings were being dissipated. And so my dad says well, I can't stand this. I'm going to go to America, land of gold, and so forth and earn enough money and come back to Japan and buy back all the family holdings. Well, my mother said, I'm going to go too -- even if they had two children that they left in Japan in the care of an aunt -- and they came to Tacoma in the year 1900. And eventually they moved over, in the next year, in 1901, they moved over to Bainbridge Island, and they worked in the sawmill. My dad worked in the sawmill. My mother did domestic work for the various people. Walked every morning, walked to the country club, and Point White, they would never think of walking today, but that was what they did in those old days. They walked all the way over there, did a day's work, and then came home and took care of the family.

DH: How far was that?

IN: Well, it's...

DH: How many miles would that have been to walk, from Port Blakely to...

IN: Oh, to Point White, I would say about four miles possibly.

DH: Yeah, such a long way.

IN: But that was the only kind of work available for the older women and so that's what they did. And they lived in the village, Japanese village, the company village, at Port Blakely, and there were numerous families there. And it so happened that there were a number of families from the same village in Japan, and so they were quite comfortable in that they were able to get by without knowing any English, but they got by. And eventually my family, my dad, started to make tofu for the village people and my... being I'm the youngest of eight children, so I didn't have to help with the tofu making, which my sisters did. [Laughs]

DH: So most of Japanese who worked for the Port Blakely mill lived in this community all together in Port Blakely.

IN: That is right. Yeah, they lived in the company home, which was a... the village had a restaurant and a boarding place and a small, the Takayoshi family had a small grocery store and tea house. And they made ice cream and they sold to the various people and that's how they made their living.

<Begin Segment 2>

DH: How'd your father get the name, nickname, Slab Harry?

IN: Well, my dad was an outgoing person and he had a good rapport with the company people and he was in charge of a gang that did, at night they loaded these mosquito boats like the Monticello that went to Seattle every day. And they loaded slab wood on the boats every night so that they could have fuel for the steamer going to Seattle back and forth, and that's how he got his nickname. He was head of the gang and that's how he got the name Slab Harry, and he also worked various places in the mill and...

DH: He's sort of a famous Japanese immigrant, one of the pioneers here on the island to be known as Slab Harry, to actually have a nickname. Because many of Japanese were not really given names at all and most of the Japanese who first came to work for the mill were just given numbers.

IN: Yeah. Well, the payroll records show that the company people could not handle the Japanese names so they had it like Jap 1 and Jap 2 and Jap 3 and so forth to designate the various people. And my dad, for instance, had to keep track of the various people that worked every night and how long they worked, and he had such a memory that he never wrote it down. At the end of the month he turned the time into the office, and all the years he did that he says he only made one mistake. Unfortunately, I was not of the same breed, I guess. [Laughs]

DH: The Slab Harry part was sort of a side industry that he had going outside the lumber business. I mean, he worked at the sawmill and then he also loaded these boats at night as sort of a side, another job.

IN: He worked at various jobs in the mill over the years, and he even worked on the log boom, which is not the safest job in the world. You get on these, in the mill pond and you get on these logs, and you feed them to the mill. And he didn't know how to swim, but that's the way they were. [Laughs]

DH: And I guess we don't have slabs anymore since they use the lumber differently now when they cut them down, but so for history's sake, slab, as I understand it and you can correct me, it's just the uneven parts of the wood?

IN: Yeah. Well, I guess they do that today even, but in the old days the logs were big and to cut them into lumber, they square up the logs, and the parts that are discarded are called slabs. And that's the part the bark is on and the log is squared up so that they can cut lumber off.

DH: So those could be used for fuel, then, on these other vessels.

IN: That is right.

<Begin Segment 3>

DH: So then you're the youngest of the six children who were born here on Bainbridge Island, and then you lived in the Japanese community. I've heard it called Jap Town, Jap Village, at Port Blakely. And you were telling me a little bit about life, what life was like there. You go to the Buddhist Church and Baptist Mission. Tell me a little more about that.

IN: Well, my recollection is that -- the mills shut down when, after about, I was about eight years old -- so what I remember of Port Blakely is that there was all the company buildings, homes, that we lived in. And among other buildings they had a restaurant and the Takayoshi family had this grocery store, tea house and it had a piano and it had a dance hall. People would come from all over and they would, one of the girls could play the piano and they would dance. And then for recreation we had a place between the Buddhist Church and the Baptist Mission, a makeshift playground, and all the kids in the whole town would come play baseball and whatever we felt like doin' and that was our recreation. Although the Port Blakely Japanese Town had a baseball team called the Nishiki, which is, I think the emblem was a maple leaf that they wore on their uniform. And they played various teams from around the Sound, and they came by one of the mosquito boats usually to Fort Ward where they played their games.

<Begin Segment 4>

DH: I know that your father came to make a lot of money, and I think as many immigrants found, there wasn't as much money to be made here as they had first thought. Did they ever speak of the hardship of not finding gold growing on trees and all that sort of thing?

IN: No. It was, if I understood the question...

DH: Did they find life here hard?

IN: Pardon?

DH: Did they find life here hard compared to Japan?

IN: Well, I guess I was too young to realize that life wasn't all that great 'cause everybody else was in the same boat. And no, it was not the easiest thing in the world, but we made out. And like, when my siblings were older than myself so they went to school, and when they first went to school, they didn't know any English at all. They spoke only Japanese, but when my turn came, my older brother and sisters were speaking somewhat more English and then so school was not that difficult for me.

DH: And then later -- do you need to take a break? Sam, are you all right?

IN: I'm fine. It's all right. You'll have to speak slow. [Laughs]

DH: So you said you pretty much enjoyed your life. It was a comfortable life for children then in Port Blakely in the Japanese village.

IN: Well, my recollection of Port Blakely was a happy one. We used to go to the beaches and we used to go fishing and gather nori and clams and so forth. So no, it was a fun place to live as far as I was concerned.

DH: And then later after the mill shut down, you moved to Seattle for a while, and then you came back and started making a transition. Can you explain the transition to farming, how your father decided to become a farmer.

IN: Yeah well, my dad was one of the last ones to leave the village because he helped tear down the mill, and then he went to work at various sawmills around the State of Washington like Selleck and Eatonville and so forth, but he decided about 1926 that that was not the life he wanted to live. And so he said well, I'm going to go back to Bainbridge and start farming strawberries. And although he had no experience as a strawberry farmer, he, but his background was farming so it was not that difficult. All you needed in those days to get started was, all you had to have a horse and cultivator and you were in business. [Laughs] And so they leased the land in my older brother's name because my dad was not eligible to lease land because the law, alien land law, prohibited him from doing so, so it was done in my older brother's name. So that's how we came back to Bainbridge. But it was fortunate that the very first crop that we harvested was very good, and so we were able to sort of get out, get out of debt and be on our own again.

<Begin Segment 5>

DH: Should we do Kay's side of the story now? Your family was in strawberry farming mostly, very well known for strawberry farming 'cause you were a Sakai.

KN: Uh-huh.

DH: Let's talk about how your family came to Bainbridge. Your father came to Canada first; is that right? Tell us about that.

KN: Uh-huh. He got married and then he decided to come to America. He didn't have to come 'cause he had a good lumber business in Japan, but since everybody's coming, he felt like he needed to come too, see what's happening in the other side of the world. So, anyway, he left Mom and he was going to work and send for her. However, he came to Canada. But he never said how he got into United States, but I know it was illegal because he never said -- he wanted to go back to Japan, and he said if he did, he wouldn't be able to come back. But he never said he got in illegally. I don't know if he swam or rode across or what. He never said and I never had the presence of mind to ask him how did you do it. Somebody apparently helped him get across. And then he got his first job at the restaurant in Seattle. It was at the Frye Hotel. It was called the Puss and Boots, and he was a fry cook and he worked hard. And finally after about three years, I guess, he saved enough money and sent for Mom. And so she came over about latter part of 1918 or beginning of 1919 'cause I was born in December of 1919. And then the doctor said -- he was having stomach problems -- and the doctor said, "You need to go out to the country. Being in the city and cooking all that fry food is not good for you." And he was... because of the fry food becoming very obnoxious... after dealing with it every day, morning 'til night, he started to eat just ochazuke, and that was not nourishing, right? Rice with tea and then pickled vegetables, and that's what he liked the best. Well, anyway, finally he decided he'd come to the island, and he took over a farm that was already in operation because these people that had it wanted to go back to Japan. And I think their name was Nakata, but then they're not related at all to the Nakatas here on the island right now. And that was, the farm was where the Deschamp's Real Estate Company is now. That ten acres, but that soil became quite depleted after farming for so many years, and so Dad purchased -- let's see, how many acres? Ten, fifteen, acres where the new school is now, the Commodore Middle School, and Ordry School. That was all our strawberry field.

DH: That was all your strawberry field? Sakai's Strawberry Field?

KN: Yes, Sakai's Strawberry Field. And that was cleared by hand, horse, dynamite. And being the eldest one, I really had to help out, every time off I had from school, summer, anything, had to help out.

<Begin Segment 6>

DH: You were the eldest of six children?

KN: Yes. Uh huh.

DH: Tell us about strawberry farming life.

KN: Oh, it wasn't fun at all. It was hard. You go out to work about seven o'clock in the morning, maybe 8:00 at the latest after you help with the dishes and everything, and then you work until about six o'clock in the evening. You come home and cook and start the bath and everything. And on Sundays, we do the washing and the cleaning. And it was just over and over again, every week same old thing, monotonous.

DH: You said you had a younger sister, younger brother tied to your back, strapped to your back.

KN: Oh, yes. And when I was ten years old I was old enough to baby-sit, 'cause Mom had to go out to the field. And so I couldn't carry my youngest sister so she'll, Mom would strap her on my back, half a day until Mom came to cook at noon or evening or whatever. And, of course, she wet my back and everything, but I couldn't take her off 'cause she was just really strapped on. And so that's how I spent my baby-sitting day if I weren't working out in the field helping with the weeding or anything.

DH: And that was your main job in the fields was to weed?

KN: Weed because I was so young I couldn't do much else.

DH: So it was ten or fifteen acres of weeding after school every day.

KN: Well, help with, you know. So I wasn't the only one though, my younger sister and brother, they all had to help. Then we had to put the weevil bait in and that dad would always say well, you're all so short. You're close to the plant so you all do it, so we just put in the weevil bait. All kinds of excuses so we have to go out there help out, but that's okay. It was a good experience.

<Begin Segment 7>

DH: And did you socialize very much with other... you didn't live in the Port Blakely community as some Japanese did.

KN: No, never.

DH: So did you socialize very much with them? What did you do for social activities when you weren't doing farm work?

KN: We really -- I don't think we really had much social life. We just made our own fun time. If we had time, a bunch of kids would come over and we'd play kick-the-can or hide-and-seek or climb up on the house or climb the tree. Oh, I have to tell you about the tree bit. We went over to one of our neighbors to pick some fruit. I don't know what it was, cherries or apples, and my brother and his friend climbed way up. And I'm a tomboy. I'm going to follow them so I start climbing. In those days we didn't wear slacks. I had my dress on and they were way up there, and I was part ways up and my foot slipped, and I turned over and my legs hung. I was hanging upside down on the limb with my skirt over my head, and the guys were up there laughing. I don't know how I ever came down. If they helped me or if I fell off, I don't know. So we had funny times.

DH: Do you remember your childhood as being pretty pleasant there then, on the island? A lot of hard work?

KN: It was okay. It was fun. Whenever we played, we had fun. Played with the boys, you know, tomboys.

<Begin Segment 8>

DH: And I asked you this before, too. So your family came from fairly well means from Japan. Did they ever speak of the hardship here when they came because they found they couldn't make their fortune right away and go back?

KN: I don't know if my dad ever wanted to make a fortune and go back. He's never said that. Have you ever heard him say that? I don't think he's ever said that. He knew he couldn't go back because he couldn't get back home to America so, but it was a hard life. Mom used to complain because she really didn't have to be a farmer's wife 'cause she had a good education, and she could have been a teacher. But of all the pictures she's seen of the fellows, she picked my dad, and they were thirteen years apart.

DH: She was an arranged marriage in Japan?

KN: Beg your pardon?

DH: She was an arranged marriage in Japan?

KN: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

DH: Going back to Sam for a second, your parents came when they were married, but your father knew a lot of bachelors who did send for picture brides. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience?

IN: Yeah. Well, many of the people that migrated to America were men and a lot of bachelors and very few women. It was quite unusual to have a family go, but over in Port Blakely there were a number of people with families, but the... eventually a lot of the men wanted to have brides and the way a good many of the women came over were picture brides. A go-between would pick out a prospective bride, and the men would send over pictures of themselves and a lot of it was [Laughs] a lot better looking than they actually were and younger than they actually were. And so the woman came over and sometimes it was not what they expected and some of them went right back to Japan, but many of them stayed and had families and it worked out.

DH: And then, Kay, you were saying that your father also purchased the land, then, in his son's name because of the laws that --

KN: No, he couldn't purchase. We were young yet so he borrowed somebody's name. I'm not too sure whose.

DH: Because he could not own land being an alien.

KN: No.

DH: And he could not become a citizen because of the law, and then eventually they also stopped the picture brides from coming over. They cut off the number of immigrants.

KN: Uh-huh.

<Begin Segment 9>

DH: And so your families were kind of unique in that you already had immigrated here as couples. And do you remember knowing each other then growing up going to the same schools?

KN: No. I knew he was around. He was on the other side of the high school, and I was on the other side and my girlfriend liked him. So I knew he was around. [Laughs]

DH: How did you meet?

KN: How did we meet?

IN: Well, I don't know.

KN: That's a long time ago. [Laughs]

IN: We, you know, whatever the, they had programs and so forth at the Japanese Hall, and we used to dance and so forth at the Japanese Hall, and that's one of the ways that I can recall having met her.

KN: Yeah, because there used to be Boys Club and Girls Club, and we would get together and we have social functions at the big Japanese Hall. And everything was held at the Japanese Hall, the funerals, the social events, weddings, anything.

DH: Was all at the Japanese hall?

KN: Yes, at the Japanese hall.

DH: The center for all the community activities.

KN: Yes, right, community activities. And even the movies they brought over from Seattle, wherever, they showed it over there. So everything was held there.

<Begin Segment 10>

DH: Anything else you want to add before we go on to Pearl Harbor and then how things changed after that? Anything else you want to reflect on from that time before the war, life before the war?

KN: I used to go to church all the time, but you know why I liked to go to church?

DH: Why?

KN: Mom gave me five pennies every Sunday so I really looked forward to going to church. Well, that part was okay, but we start out a little early, and then we go down to this grocery store. You know where the Madrona Cafe is now?

DH: Uh-huh.

KN: There was a grocery store down there very close to Eagle Harbor Congregational Church. So I would spend two cents for licorice stick, licorice whip, and the remainder went into the church collection basket. So you know I won't go to heaven. [Laughs] That went on for quite a while.

DH: And they never knew.

KN: Now I make up for it.

DH: Was it a tough decision trying to decide between going to a Buddhist church or a Christian church?

KN: See, we were brought up Buddhist, but I couldn't understand a thing. Mom would take us to the service because no baby-sitters, right, and so we just sit there and listen, and we would just suffer through. But once we started school and we could understand English, then Mom says well, you go to church. So she gives us this money for collection, and then we go to church. So I went until I was about twelve years old.

DH: Anything you remember from those days you want to add?

IN: Well, when I was a kid at Port Blakely whenever they had a function at the Buddhist Church, I'd go there; and whenever that he had function at the Baptist Church, I'd go there, also. [Laughs] So it didn't matter to me. It was just a matter of attending and it didn't make any difference what the denomination of the church or whatever it was.

DH: That was just part of your social life.

IN: Yes, and that was true of all the kids over in Port Blakely.

DH: Just go to wherever there was activities.

IN: And there were a number of people at the Baptist Mission -- there were a number of Caucasians who spoke Japanese, and they would come over from Seattle, and the older people would attend and listen to them. That was part of our -- I think we'd rather have played baseball or something like that rather than going to church about that time.

DH: Did you go to Japanese Language School in addition to American schools?

IN: We lived a short time in Seattle and I went to a Japanese language school for about two years, and that was the extent of my Japanese. That's all I ever -- well, I learned Japanese was by, from my folks or from, because the community being all Japanese, it was spoken mostly Japanese.

DH: So you spoke Japanese at home, but in school you spoke English.

IN: Right.

DH: Did you go to Japanese school here?

KN: Yes, uh-huh. I went eight years and I got my diploma, but that doesn't mean I know a lot.

DH: Because you used English mostly in school.

KN: Yes. However, I used to do lots of interpreting in camp between the Issei and the Nisei doctors when I worked at the hospital.

DH: And I know you did a lot of interpreting, too, for your parents, and we'll get into that in just a minute here. Do you want to take a break?

IN: No.

KN: It doesn't matter.

<Begin Segment 11>

DH: So let's talk now then about Pearl Harbor. So where were you on the day that you heard the news about Pearl Harbor?

IN: You know, I just don't actually recall where I was, but when I heard the news it was on a Sunday, and immediately I thought well, we're going to go through some difficult times, and it was more than difficult. It was a lot worse than I thought it would be.

DH: Kay, you were saying that you didn't feel that it was going to be that difficult at first.

KN: No. I don't know why, I just thought gosh. Now the jet age, Japan is close, but in those days Japan seemed so far away that it's not going to affect us, but I was wrong.

DH: It seemed like the Japanese who were being... who this was about, were over there and you were American.

KN: Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. So that it shouldn't affect us. And Japan seemed so far away.

DH: Were your parents worried?

KN: I don't know if they fretted very much or not. They lived in America longer than they did in Japan at that point and so... well, in fact, when the war broke out, Dad cashed in his life insurance policy and bought victory bonds. That's what they called them then, victory bonds. And I don't know how much worth he bought, but he bought quite a bit. And he always said we have to be patriotic and all this stuff. So I think he was more American at that point than we realized.

<Begin Segment 12>

DH: So it must have come as quite a shock to him when then they started having guns seized and dynamite seized.

KN: Uh-huh. In fact, he was taken for a day or two because we had this big Buddhist shrine, and the FBI said that was our short wave set. We had a short wave set in there.

DH: They thought the Buddhist shrine was the short wave set.

KN: Uh-huh. That they didn't even examine it or anything. They just said, got a short wave set in there so took Dad, and besides he had dynamite and stuff like that because we were clearing land.

DH: You had to use the dynamite to clear stumps off the land for that strawberry farming.

KN: Uh-huh, because we didn't have bulldozers and if we needed a bulldozer job done, then we hired. But then in those days, we didn't have much money to hire people like that so mostly we did it with dynamite and all the help, human help, you can get, and horses.

DH: So they took him for a couple of days?

KN: Uh-huh. He didn't have to go to Missoula or anyplace. I don't know where they took him, Fort Ward, Seattle, just a day or two.

DH: Were you home when the FBI arrived?

KN: Uh-huh.

DH: What was that like? Was it scary?

KN: Scary, scary, petrified. Didn't know what was going to happen.

DH: What happened? They came and they knocked on the door and they showed up?

KN: Uh-huh, and they kind of looked around.

DH: And then they arrested him or they just took him?

KN: They just took him. They just said, "You're coming with us," and he couldn't pack anything, just coming with us.

DH: What did your mother say?

KN: I can't remember what she said. I think she was so scared. I don't think she said anything.

DH: Yeah, yeah.

<Begin Segment 13>

DH: And you remember the day that your father was taken. You were telling us about that before.

IN: Yes. Because mainly like her family, we were clearing land also, and we had dynamite at home in the shed. And I had told the local deputy sheriff that, I had reported to him that I did have the powder and... well, it so happened that the day that the FBI raided the island, I was visiting another family and over the radio they announced that the FBI was on Bainbridge Island and checking out the various families. And so I said to my friend hey, I better get home. They might be coming to my place or already might have been there. So I went home, but the FBI didn't show up 'til late afternoon and they're already broadcasting over the air that so they were, it was no big secret or anything, but they did finally come. There was two people, I think, and the local deputy sheriff, and I told the deputy sheriff, "Hey, Jim, don't you remember I reported the powder to you," but he was too scared so acknowledge it, but so they said they will have to take your dad. And it so happened the FBI agent was the same age as myself, and he was very good about everything. So they took him and they went to the immigration station in Seattle, and my dad went. They turned him loose after one night. And he said that... this was not a, you know, they had a dossier on all the older Japanese, and they had no reason to take my dad. And it so happened that he said some people had almost pages and pages about their past history. They had already investigated most of the Japanese, and he mentioned one case where they were interrogating this older man and asked him, "Have you ever been out of the United States?" and the guy says, "No, I've never." Then they said well, in such and such a year you were up in the cannery in Alaska, the fish cannery in Alaska, you worked out there. And they had all this information already.

DH: You said that it was sort of a propaganda ploy because most people on the island had to report their dynamite and all that kind of thing, and then you had heard it on the radio.

IN: Yes. In retrospect, I would say that it was a propaganda situation where they were trying to play to the public.

DH: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 14>

DH: Then you said that being the eldest of the six, you had to really help the Issei understand what was going on because they had to be registered and then their guns were seized and short wave radios and dynamite and all that kind of stuff. There must have been a lot of confusion. Did you get a growing sense of fear that there was going to be more animosity toward the Japanese community on the island?

IN: Well, particularly when the notice came that Bainbridge Islanders would have to leave within almost a week's time, I felt that being a citizen that we would probably not be asked to leave. But when the order came that we all had to go -- and some of the elder, the men had been taken by the FBI, and taken to Missoula, Montana, where they had the place for them -- and so a lot of the families had the male of the family was gone. And the confusion was really, really bad because just the mother and the siblings were there, but the, and some of them had -- there was one particular family that I remember. They had no mother to begin with. She had passed on and the oldest daughter was about fourteen, and they had about four or five, five or six kids. And they had taken the father away and so she was the one that had to take care of the family and that was a very difficult time.

DH: Well, let's talk about that week. When the evacuation order came for the Island, Islanders had, Japanese Islanders had eight days to prepare to leave, and you had talked before about how the crops were in.

[Interruption]

DH: Let's go back to talking about the evacuation order.

KN: Okay. That's on?

DH: Yeah. We're back. Okay. Bainbridge Islanders, the Japanese on Bainbridge Island were the first to be evacuated, and when the order came you were given eight days. So describe what those eight days were like. What did you do during those eight days?

KN: I think he was the busy one.

IN: Well, yeah, because I'm being one of the older Nisei and we sort of played interpreters role possibly and so a lot of the families, the older Japanese, couldn't understand the directives and so forth and so they would call. And it was a hectic time because nobody, and even the people that had administered the whole proceedings, they were not very well informed either. So we had to do what we could do and settle our business within the eight days. We had farms and some people had other businesses and so forth, and to find a manager, our crops were just about ready to be picked within a month's time, had arrange for pickers and so forth and so on, and so it was a hectic time. And the specified that we could only carry, I mean, take whatever we could carry so we had to get, either dispose of our things or make other arrangements for storage or whatever. In fact, we had a couple of guys come to our place that wanted to buy our washing machine and refrigerator that we had just acquired, and so he offered me a pittance, and I said to him, "Hey, I'm not selling to you." So I didn't.

DH: People thought they could snap up bargains since you had to be out of here so quickly.

IN: Pardon?

DH: People thought they could snap up a bargain.

IN: Oh, yeah. But the Bainbridge Island was pretty good. They didn't come in hoards and try to take whatever they could at whatever price, but when he offered me the sum that very, you know, I decided I told him not. I wasn't selling.

DH: Did you go buy suitcases to pack up your things?

IN: Yeah. See, we were not travelers. We were just on Bainbridge most of the time, and in those days you didn't go. A trip to Seattle was a big deal, but seeing that we had to have suitcases and so forth, well, we bought the cheapest luggage we could find and make do.

DH: And the crops were coming along, you said? I think I had read that it was a really warm spring.

IN: Yeah. It was an early spring and the strawberries were all in bloom and within the month's time they were ready, the plants were ready for harvest.

DH: Well, as rumors were building that the Japanese might be evacuated, why did you go on farming then? You had to just keep getting your crops ready?

IN: That's right. One of the things they told us was that you would be compensated for your crops so just maintain them just like you would normally and that's what we did, but it turned out that we were never compensated as such. Fortunately for myself, we contracted with a berry packing company, and we did receive checks directly from the company.

<Begin Segment 15>

DH: How about your family, Kay, what did you do during those eight days?

KN: Oh, it was hectic. Probably not as hectic as his, but there were eight of us to think about, you know, evacuation. And, of course, when they said, take only what you can carry, and in those days you were lucky to get one suitcase apiece. When I think back now, if Dad were able to get two for each of us, I know I could have carried two suitcases.

DH: But you simply didn't have that kind of thing.

KN: No, but I wore my heavy suit and I wore my overcoat and I wore my hat, my best clothes. And where were we going? Where it was hot, which we didn't know.

DH: What else did you pack?

KN: Oh, very few clothes that I had and some of the things that I treasured. That's it.

DH: You said it was hard to pack not knowing how long you'd be gone.

KN: That's right. We just didn't know and then our suitcase was limited, one suitcase, so we really had to make choices. And so a lot of the things we stored in one big bedroom upstairs thinking that maybe we'll be gone about six months. I don't know how I got that six months bit, but that always stuck in my head. We were going to be gone about six months or thereabouts so everything will be okay, but after three and a half years, the tenant had gone in with a pass key and helped herself to lots of things up there that you were not able to get during the war, you know, like towels and sheets. And living on the farm, we used to buy things by the cases like coffee and canned salmon, canned milk, and rice by the sacks. And we stored everything up there because most of the things were gone.

DH: Sam, you were talking earlier about the young woman who was the head of her family since her father had been taken away. So during that eight days I recall you saying that you had gone out to help her pack, and she didn't know what exactly to do. She had to care for her young people, her younger siblings. Is that right?

IN: No. My dad was released by the FBI.

DH: No, not your father, but another young woman on the island, that other young woman on the island who turned out to be the head of her household since her father had been taken away and you were helping. So you were not only helping your family, but you were helping other families then get ready during those eight days as you were translating for them and the phone was ringing off the hook.

IN: Yeah. It was a period of time where everybody was trying help each other out as much as possible. And so it was a very, very difficult time. That's all I can...

<Begin Segment 16>

DH: And the day of the evacuation, there was a special ferry at Eagledale to pick up the Japanese. How did you get to the ferry?

KN: The, well, like most places, the army truck came with soldiers, big convoy truck, and so that's how we were transported to the ferry. I don't know if anybody took their cars because how do you get it back home?

DH: So an army convoy truck pulled up in front of your house.

KN: Yes. Uh-huh. And then so our family and probably another family went on the truck because each family did not have a truck. They transported as many as they can on one trip.

IN: Well, a lot of friends took them over to Eagledale landing and so they had transportation one way or another.

DH: So then the army convoy trucks and some other people were driving to Eagledale and that's where everyone gathered and the soldiers. And then describe what that was like then getting onto the ferry, saying good-bye to your friends.

IN: Well, when we gathered at the Eagledale, the Army had hired the ferry for a special trip and a lot of school kids had skipped school to say good-bye to their friends. A lot of other people were there to bid us good-bye, and it was a kind of a very sad scene.

KN: Yeah. Friends were crying, Caucasian friends were hugging us all and crying. In fact, we had several friends, classmates come to the house before we got on the convoy truck, and they really felt bad, and they felt so helpless. They couldn't do anything for us except to say good-bye and gave us a big hug, and we couldn't even tell them were we were going 'cause we didn't know.

DH: This was March 1942 so school hadn't let out yet, then.

KN: No, not yet.

DH: And I had read that the baseball team, half the baseball team was evacuated so there were people in their letterman's jackets. And then describe now what it was like to then get on that ferry and see the island disappear behind you.

KN: That was a... I don't know, just a very weird, lonely feeling because having lived on the farm, we didn't go to Seattle very much or anyplace. And to pack and just leave your home, it was really hard to describe the feeling, just that sinking feeling of where are we going and what's going to happen.

IN: One of the things I heard later is that the elder Nakata family who was very prominent among the Japanese, the older gentleman went up to the upper deck, and when he had to leave this island -- he had lived here a good many years, just as long as my dad, and to have to leave, his son told me later that he had tears in his eyes when he had to leave. And not only the old gentleman, but the skipper of the ferry, he had tears in his eyes when he had to, 'cause he was -- in fact, her family leased the land from this skipper. That was his land and this Captain Wyatt had tears in his eyes when he saw what we had to go through.

KN: Because he knew Japanese quite well and so it was hard for him too, I'm sure, to be the skipper taking all these Japanese off the island.

DH: And you were just herded onto the ferry that way.

KN: Uh-huh, just herded on with soldiers here and there with their bayonets.

DH: How did you feel having everyone watch you that way?

IN: Well, especially when we got into Seattle, the train was waiting for us on Alaskan Way and on the overhead viaduct, people were lined up watching us, all kinds of people, and curiosity, friends, whatever. Some of them probably glad to see us leave, but yeah, it was a very trying time.

<Begin Segment 17>

DH: So then after you got off the ferry, you were put on a train on Alaskan Way viaduct, and I think Walt Woodward said in his interview that the overpass was just jammed with people watching.

KN: Jammed with people, just -- I don't know how many feet deep, but it was just full of people.

DH: And then you took a train ride. What was the train like?

KN: Well, the train ride was okay, but at one point, did we run out of water or something?

IN: No, I don't know.

DH: You said you were wearing your overcoat and the windows were up.

KN: Overcoat and my suit, windows were blacked out just like that so we couldn't even see where we were going. We couldn't see enjoy the view or anything.

DH: How long were you on the train?

KN: Well, we left on March 30th and arrived in Manzanar April first, April Fool's Day. That's a joke, isn't it.

DH: It is. You told me that your heart sank when you saw where you were going.

KN: I know. After we transferred from the train to the bus because train couldn't go no further, and we were riding along and I'm looking way out yonder and I could just see the buildings. I didn't know they were barracks, buildings, and fellows working without their shirt on, and you could just see the heat wave. And I looked out and then I said to somebody that was sitting next to me, I (said), "Boy, am I glad I don't live in a place like that." But as we kept going, that's where we went into.

DH: That's where you were headed.

KN: Yes. And my heart just sank. It just felt --

<Begin Segment 18>

KN: Besides the heat and everything, and we're not used to that heat, that desert heat, and it was just all the sage brush and sand and all these tar paper barracks and no green trees. Oh, it was a totally different feeling especially going from this nice, green Puget Sound to desert country.

DH: So you got off the trucks at Manzanar and you were one of the first ones there, so it was pretty rough.

KN: Yeah. They gave us canvas bag, ticking, and we had to go and fill it with straw for our mattress and pillow, and then they gave us a khaki blanket.

DH: And that was it.

KN: That was it.

DH: And how many people to a room?

KN: Well, for us there were eight of us, so part of a barrack, one unit, all the beds lined up. No chairs, no tables or anything, and so we just sat on the bed. That was our couch and everything else.

DH: And then there were long lines to...

KN: The mess hall, and then if you were lucky not to have the windstorm hit you, it was okay. But lots of times when you were standing in line for the mess hall to open, the windstorm would come up and oh, you'd be just covered with sand. And if you had your mouth open, you were eating the sand with your lunch, your dinner.

DH: And then yet among these conditions, you got engaged.

KN: Yeah, after a fashion.

DH: At Manzanar.

KN: Uh-huh.

DH: And then you said that you worked outside the camp then at Manzanar after a while.

IN: I...

DH: You went out to harvest sugar beets?

IN: See, in June, middle of June, people from Idaho who were -- they were short of help and they recruited people to go to work in the fields in Idaho. And I said, well, I might as well get out of here. I'm not doing anything here so I volunteered to go to Idaho. And I worked in the fields in Idaho, and it was a totally different country from what we were used to.

<Begin Segment 19>

DH: Tell us about the riot at Manzanar.

IN: There were various causes for the riot in Manzanar, but the evening that it occurred, I was and another friend were down in the administration area, and then we saw these people. They had a meeting at one of the barracks way up higher up in the area, and they came... they weren't rushing. They just came in like they had a very... reason to come to the administration. They had a beef or something. And I said to my friend, "Hey, we better get out of here, there's going to be trouble tonight," so we left that area. And sure enough the soldiers that were down on the administration area and they had a confrontation, and they opened up with, the soldiers opened up with tear gas and shot several people. And more than one person died during that riot. But I myself was not in any particular trouble, but my dad went down to see what was going on and he got... [Laughs]

KN: Right in the middle of it practically. [Laughs]

IN: And he got into the tear gas and he just came running home or down to our barrack.

<Begin Segment 20>

DH: Most of the time, I mean, it wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't that rough. I didn't really talk to you about describing your experiences at Manzanar before you left to work outside the camp. Do you want to describe what it was like to live at camp, what your day-to-day routine was like.

KN: I didn't quite get it.

DH: What was your day-to-day routine like at Manzanar?

IN: Day-to-day thing?

DH: Yeah. What was the day like.

IN: Well, to operate the camp they had various jobs, and I decided I'm going to get whatever job I could get, and they paid us sixteen dollars a month. And I helped at the warehouse unloading trucks and so forth, the rations that were brought in, and I worked at the butcher shop for a while, and that was the extent of... and we had our regular hours, but we tried not to work too hard. [Laughs]

DH: What was your typical day like, Kay?

KN: Well, I got a job at the hospital, which I really liked. I lived on Block 3 and walked to Block 44 to the hospital to work, but it was really enjoyable. I was a typist clerk. We had, in a barrack, we had typist clerk on one side and stenographers on the other end and it was a public health department. And the Isseis would get a job at the mess halls, and they had to have food handlers permit so they'd come in for a physical and everything. And Isseis and the Nisei doctors were having a very difficult time communicating, and I would be sitting there listening. And I'd get very, very jittery and nervous because they were not communicating well. So I just jumped up and I start to interpret and ever since, I started doing that. And I really enjoyed it and I learned lots of Japanese words, the medical terms, and so it was very educational for me. And I really loved it because originally when I graduated high school I really wanted to be a nurse, but my guidance counselor said, "You are too weak and you cannot stand on your feet eight hours a day," so... but anyway I really enjoyed working at the hospital and met lots of nice friends.

<Begin Segment 21>

DH: So let's see. So soon... how long were you at Manzanar?

KN: Eleven months.

DH: Eleven months, and then you were transferred to Minidoka.

IN: Uh-huh.

KN: We asked to be transferred to be close to the Northwest people.

DH: And that was after the riot then, too.

IN: Yeah, almost directly after the riot.

DH: So compare the camps. What was better or worse?

KN: Well, Minidoka -- did we have sand storm? I can't remember about sand storm.

IN: No, it was pretty well settled about that time.

KN: It was -- well, when it got cold and did it rain? I remember muddy, but we weren't in camp that long so I can't really say.

DH: Yeah.

KN: But it was quite different. Manzanar was quite level where Minidoka was more kind of on the slant hill. Did you think it was like that?

IN: Well, where Manzanar had mountain ranges, the Sierras Nevadas were right close by, and the soil was mostly sandy whereas in Minidoka, we had a canal where the water just like a river running by, and the soil was more muddy, clayish. And so it was, in that respect it was different.

DH: Was it more comfortable being around other people from the Northwest, though, compared to Manzanar, which was populated a lot by Californians?

KN: Uh-huh, but we made lots of friends and they were very friendly and so I didn't mind it.

<Begin Segment 22>

DH: Then so you were engaged at Manzanar and then you got married while you were at Minidoka.

KN: Uh-huh, because we moved after eleven months.

DH: Right. So describe the wedding.

KN: Oh, it was a big wedding. [Laughs] By that I mean we had a permit to go out for one day.

IN: To Twin Falls.

KN: To Twin Falls, yes. We took the bus from, by the administration building, and Sam's sister and sister-in-law went with us as witness. And we look for a Justice of the Peace and he was out to lunch. So we look for a minister and found a Presbyterian minister and so he married us, and his wife was a witness, too. And then after the short ceremony we went for dinner, big deal, chicken dinner. You know, after eating mish-mash and everything else in camp that was a great treat. When you say chicken dinner now, it's so common, but then it was a big treat. And so we stayed one night and then came back and that was it.

DH: And that was it.

KN: That was it because during the war you couldn't get anything, everything was just so scarce. In fact, all cotton things were very scarce, and when our son was born, we couldn't even buy diapers hardly because in those days they used flannel diapers and everything. Now they have throwaways.

DH: Did you get a wedding ring? Did you dress up for the occasion?

KN: No, I didn't have a wedding dress or anything. I just wore the best clothes, dress that I had, which a dressmaker made for me while I was in Manzanar. She was a wonderful dressmaker. She was busy making dresses for lots of people, and so I had one made, but it was tailor made. It was not a fancy dress.

DH: Where did she get the fabric?

KN: Well, Sears Roebuck and Montgomery Ward was our Bible almost. Everybody shops Sears Roebuck and Montgomery Ward. And then at the canteen, sometimes some materials came in.

DH: So she could make you a nice dress to wear for your wedding, or was it just a dress that you had made?

KN: I just had the dress made so I just wore it for a wedding.

DH: Did you get a wedding ring?

KN: Uh-huh. Yeah. That, we could get, but some of the other things we were not able to get. And, of course, we got about a couple of wedding gifts because people just couldn't buy anything.

DH: Uh-huh.

KN: Which was okay.

<Begin Segment 23>

DH: And then you were referring to it a little earlier, but your son was born in camp then, too.

KN: Yes. We were out of camp, but then when he was ready to be born, you know, the birth date came real close, we came into camp and so I was at the camp hospital.

DH: For the delivery?

KN: Yes, for the delivery. Uh-huh.

DH: Pretty rough conditions?

KN: Well, the hospital was just a big barrack, and, yeah, it was rather primitive when you think about it now.

DH: And, again, you said there were no cotton for diapers, and you had to kind of borrow those things from everybody else and no money for gifts, for baby gifts or anything like that.

KN: Yeah, right. Uh huh.

<Begin Segment 24>

DH: And then you said you worked outside of camp. So you were in Minidoka for a short time and then you also went outside or left the camp to go to a ranch to farm. Is that right?

IN: Yes. When we -- the summer I went up to Idaho, I finally ended up in this big ranch and got to know these people real well. And when we moved back to Minidoka from Manzanar, after I went back to work at that ranch because I had known them very well. And, in fact, we are in touch with them even today. And there were, oh, about three of us that were working there mainly. And after we got married, we had a cabin to ourselves and that's...

DH: So it wasn't too bad. You being off camp and at the ranch you had a few more goods than you were allowed to have in camp.

KN: We had a ration book so we could get butter, meat, and then I was cooking for some of the guys that worked with him. So they came to eat their meals and then I got dollar a day for that, for three meals wasn't it? Breakfast, lunch and dinner. So it kept me busy, but going back to the diapers. I remembered the supervisor that I worked for in Manzanar at the hospital public health department, after we moved to Minidoka, she heard about the arrival, the new arrival. So she and the gals that I worked with got together, and I don't know where they got the flannel, but they made little nighties and buntings and diapers. And here came this great big care package and oh, was that a godsend. I'm telling you. It was just wonderful, great big package of all kinds of things for the new baby.

DH: You must have been the envy of every new mother.

KN: Oh, gosh. Actually flannel --

DH: Which was very hard to come by during the war.

KN: Oh, yes. Because they were using all that for the machinery and engines for the war effort so that was really great.

<Begin Segment 25>

DH: How did you keep track of what was going on on Bainbridge while you were in camp?

IN: See, Walt Woodward had a correspondent among the Japanese, and then the correspondent would write to the Review, and Walt Woodward would publish the articles. And then so we used to get the Review from the, in camp.

DH: The Review was delivered to camp so you could kind of find out what was going on on Bainbridge.

IN: That's right.

KN: But for a long time we didn't have much newspaper, did we? We couldn't keep track of lot of things.

DH: They wouldn't let you have them.

KN: I didn't know what it was, but we just weren't in contact very well at some point, but it got better.

IN: Some of us corresponded with people here on the island.

KN: Well, in fact, in the beginning were they not censored?

IN: I can't remember.

KN: Yeah, crossed off with a dark marking pencil, different, whatever they thought was not supposed to be written in the letter.

DH: Anything else from, any other memories you have from that time period before you came back to the island, the camp, and the ranch?

KN: Well, it was a busy time, very busy time. So the time didn't really drag very much, but I knew I was coming home eventually so that kind of saved me because if I had thought that this is it, I don't know what would have happened. But I kept thinking one day we're going back. One day we're going back so that just kind of kept me going.

DH: Anything you want to add, Sam?

IN: Well, during the war years, actually I moved sixteen times from camp, to working in areas, to different working areas, back to camp, and so on and so forth. Sixteen times is how many times I moved.

DH: That's a lot of moving.

KN: But then luckily we didn't have house full of furniture, right? [Laughs]

IN: No.

DH: True.

<Begin Segment 26>

DH: Not all the islanders returned to the island. What made you decide you wanted to come back here?

KN: I always wanted to come back. I don't know why. I just didn't want to live anyplace else probably because I didn't know anyplace else.

IN: No. After traveling around during the war, this was sort of an ideal place to come back to.

DH: When were you released to come back home to Bainbridge Island?

KN: We left there in October '45.

DH: And what was it like when you came back?

KN: Well, let's see, I...

IN: Well, luckily I had sold my farm before we came, before the ban was lifted. And luckily her folks retained their house and farm and so they had a tenant that stayed at the farm all during the war, but she would not move out when (the folks) decided to come back. And so (the folks) lived in the basement of the house for a number of days until she finally gave up and moved out.

DH: The basement of your own home?

KN: Concrete floors.

DH: And you sold your farm, your father's farm, during the eight days that you had to prepare to leave?

IN: No, I did not. It was after the ban was lifted and I tried to get back the farm, but the manager that I had, that took over the place made it very difficult for us to regain the farm. And rather than go fight the fellow about how to regain the farm -- he had planted some new plants in the meantime and he wanted an exorbitant price for that, and he made it very, very difficult for us to regain the farm and so we finally ended up selling to him.

DH: So you had no place to go to. You had to move into the basement of your parents' place. Until they finally, until the tenant finally left. And that's what you found when you came back, after they were supposed to guarantee your crops and all this.

KN: Let's see. The folks... when the folks came back, they didn't have a hard time regaining their strawberry farm. I think about that time, didn't the manager sort of abandon it because it was all weeds.

IN: No, he did not, but --

KN: He didn't?

IN: No, but he was a fellow that just, didn't make it hard for them to come back. He cooperated very well.

DH: You moved back to the Sakai's to do farming for a little while.

KN: No, we didn't farm there. We just stayed while we looked for a place, but then we finally found a place to lease in Tacoma. So we went over there, moved over there, and started farming. And I don't know how many months we were there, not too long. April, May, June, July, August, September, about 5-6 months. And then this dental surgeon in Tacoma decided to sell the farm and he just sold. So there we didn't have -- we had to move again so we came back to folks' again. Then we seriously started to looking for a place of our own, and after looking all over the place, we found this place, which was just really run down and farm house and the garage was over the piling, over the water, and there was a sheep barn back where our garage is now and a chicken coop right out there where my bedroom is and the weeds had overgrown because the renters had not taken care of the place. But when Sam looked at it, he says, "There's potential," so here we are today.

DH: And a beautiful home.

KN: No sign of the old barn or anything.

<Begin Segment 27>

DH: Sam, I think you said that when you came back to Seattle you saw some goons, I think, you said on a train that gave you a scare. Can you tell us about that experience?

IN: Well, Kay and I came back, one of the first ones to come back, not to resettle, but to kind of check out the atmosphere and see how things were. And when we got off the train at the Union Station, I believe, and came up the stairs, there were a couple of tough looking guys at the top of the stairs, and one of them said to the other, "We'll get these two, too." Apparently I found out later, they were goons from the teamster's union 'cause Dave Beck was very opposed to our coming back. Dave Beck was a power in Seattle at that time, and he was opposed to our coming back, but nothing happened to us. We made our way.

DH: And then you also had a frightening experience at the Williams.

IN: Yes. Well, we came, we called Mrs. Williams, who was very favorably inclined toward us, and to see how she felt, and she invited to us dinner that evening. And so we went down and during the course of the evening somebody knocked at the door, and she said, "You two better get back in the bedroom (in) back, because we really don't know who's coming." And it turned out to be nothing serious and the evening passed, and we had -- she was very kind to us, but outside of that there was no bad experience.

DH: Most of the island was in favor of the Japanese returning to the island.

KN: Yeah, never heard anything negative. So I guess -- and we never experienced anything that was bad so I think it was okay.

DH: Well, Walt Woodward wrote in favor of the Japanese returning and there was a small movement on the island, I guess, opposed to that, but I think that most people believed that was the minority. And is that the way you felt too, most people were really happy to have you back and happy to see you again?

KN: Uh-huh, and they were very nice, but I know I was very cautious about every move I made. I was like watching over my shoulder like to make sure nothing is going to happen, but I didn't have to worry, really.

DH: Did you feel that people were looking at you differently when you came back?

KN: No, we didn't feel that way.

IN: Their reaction was depending upon the individual, and I would say in the majority that there was, a feeling was not negative.

KN: And if there had been some negative feelings, they were not showing it, but this island is a great place. Gets better all the time.

<Begin Segment 28>

DH: Is there anything else you want to add to this story?

KN: I can't think of anything right now.

IN: Well, in our later years, in spite of all our experiences, bad, I think in the main it was -- I can't look back on my life and say that it was all that bad. In fact, living here and living in this country, I've got nothing but a good feeling. My kids have gone to school and enjoyed the benefits that they have and so no, I have never harbored any real bitter feelings about our experience. It was a tough time and all that, but outside of that, this has been a great place, a great country to live in.

KN: Yeah. I wouldn't live any place else.

DH: What do you want people to learn from this experience? I hope that the project can be used as an educational tool to educate people about the Japanese American experience. And what would you want them to come away with then from learning about what happened to this community?

KN: Well, I hope that before anything like this happens again that they would really think it over, study it well, and not just make a hasty decision. Hysteria and racial prejudice and just bam, you're gone. And if they could do that, it would be more sensible. So, I'm sure that the country has learned a lot through this experience because it was a big mistake. So they will try harder not to let it happen again, I'm sure.

DH: Anything else you want to add?

IN: Well, for myself I would, I would hope that from our experience -- I would not even grant an interview if I didn't feel that it would serve some purpose that later on, I mean that something like this will not happen. And I will say that I am more cynical about government and so forth, but in spite of all that, this is the place I want to live out my days.

DH: Thank you.

KN: You're welcome.