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SF: Okay. Your dissertation involved some of these issues, I guess, Japanese American identity and its relationship to Christianity and so forth. And I guess you did this dissertation during really a tumultuous period of American history, the Civil Rights Era. How did that influence you, going through that time period? And how did...?

PN: That was very critical in my own spiritual and social pilgrimage. I really had to wrestle with this question. And I had to -- for my own conscience sake -- want to know what does it mean to be a Japanese American in our society? By the way, the dissertation I worked on was entitled, "Japanese Americans Search for Identity Ethnic Pluralism, and the Basis for a Permanent Identity." And my whole thesis had to do with the idea that we need, as Japanese Americans, to affirm who we are as Japanese Americans, and to be able to develop a strong identity as to who we are -- healthy, ego strength, identity as Japanese American. And that we should learn to respect ourselves, as well as respect others with their diversity. And that when we respect each other, then we can have a level playing field and there would be a real community developed. But unless we did that, we'd really be swallowed up and absorbed by the dominant group. So there's a necessity that we have to develop leadership among our own and affirm who we are as Japanese Americans. Like with the emphasis on Asian American, maybe Asian American. But we are different from the majority. And so with our differences, we need to accentuate that and appreciate that, and develop our leadership and our future with that understanding. And developing a pluralistic society, where every differences and diversity should be respected. Then we have genuine community. Otherwise, it will always be a dichotomy of superior and inferior. And we just need to build ourselves up and develop that kind of leadership in order to have a real pluralistic society. And that is needed for religion as well. When you think of our whole global village, that Buddhist, Christian all, when you're trying to fight each other and be competitive, you're not gonna help this world any or develop community. We gotta work together. And so we have to affirm being a Buddhist, affirm being a Christian, but recognize that when you respect and affirm each other, you can really have community. You can have real understanding of each other. And that's the need, I think, of our world, is that we recognize that it is a pluralistic world, that we have all these different ethnic groups. And there's no such thing as ethnic cleansing. That's wrong. We need to just respect every group and work together in harmony and have peace. So you gotta think globally as well. So that's my thesis, anyway.

BF: When you mentioned the need to build the JA identity, to affirm it, to make it stronger, do you think that the internment, that whole experience, what kind of effect did it have, does it have on the issue of identity for the Japanese American community, both negative and positive?

PN: Good. The metaphor of the Jewish race is an interesting metaphor because it was through their exodus that they developed a nation. And they take pride in being a Jewish people. And that has been their strength. Although they're a remnant and they've been persecuted wherever they've gone, they've always maintained the dignity of their culture as Jewish people. And of course, the word "Jew" refers not only to their belief, but to other factors as well. And so in terms of the Japanese American, I think that that is what we have to do, is to take pride in who we are, and develop our own mythology in such a way that we'll really feel good about who we are and our background. And that, 'course, makes us much more understanding of other groups and other people's ethnicity. And in the same time, the danger is it's -- what they term, sociologically, is ethnocentricity where we become an ingrown, self-supported group, and then find security in just being with our own. That's always the danger. But with their good, good leadership, either you break out of that and say they're, they're -- we have to get involved universally or globally or in terms of the whole society. That is our aim. Not just to be a comfortable little ghetto within the city or whatever. So that leadership is important. So when I say pluralism, it really means developing the dignity of each ethnic group. Begin to respect yourself and respect other ethnic groups. I think that's, that's my whole thesis.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.