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TM: Well you know, when my father learned to make fish cake in the city of Uwajima, and so they used to grind it and then, grind it meaning through a meat grinder. And make like a sausage, then you would mix it in a mixer like this with salt, I think we used certain amount of flour, cornstarch, and then... but nowadays what we -- you could buy the surimi already made into surimi, and this process is just to mix the vegetable into it or add a little flavor, maybe a little salt or something.

BF: So what fish was used back when your father made it? What fish?

TM: Well you can use almost any white fish, but we used to use lingcod which is really good. But nowadays I think these are pollack and other types of fish. But if you use other than white fish, the satsumaage looks black or dark. So, it's a visual issue. Actually if you use perch, it comes out gray and black. It doesn't look good but it's really tasty. [Laughs]

BF: Mmmm.

TM: But it's a lot of work to cut little perches like this. We used to buy lingcod for -- I don't know -- ten cents a pound. Now it's a dollar a pound or you know...

BF: Yeah.

TM: And it's not so easy to get. Probably wouldn't pay to start from a fresh lingcod or frozen, cut it, and grind it. It would take a long time.

BF: And so your father used to make it -- I mean, that's how the business started.

TM: Right. We started making this and kamaboko, satsumaage and kamaboko, probably late afternoon, evening. And in the morning he would sell it to the different camps where the Japanese, mostly bachelors were. Like, and I told you, railroad camps, fishing camps, lumber camps.

BF: Uh-huh. And he'd deliver it the next morning?

TM: Yeah. And I think he was, I'm assuming that was the edge he had over other companies, because you know, everybody could get shoyu and miso and rice. But he had this fresh kamaboko and satsumaage that was, I guess, unique Uwajimaya products.

BF: And how was -- is this something that is considered a staple in Japan? I mean...

TM: Actually, satsumaage is, well it's pretty basic. It's used in udon and oden and things. So it's kind of basic. It's not considered fancy food. However, kamaboko is because it has to be white, and you have to use the best meat. So it is, it's used for gifts and for special occasions. But kamaboko is a different story because it's, the process the same but you have to use real good meat to start with otherwise you get blemishes in the kamaboko. But if you see kamaboko and it's all white...

BF: Right.

TM: And pure, so it just elevates the process a little higher, so... even kamaboko in Japan, giving it as a gift is a little more luxurious item.

BF: Uh-huh. And you said that the recipe for the flavoring of the satsumaage is pretty much still your father's, after all these years?

TM: Well, yes and no. The surimi is basically, is surimi. Yeah.

BF: It comes already flavored?

TM: A lot of it. It might just lack some salt. So basically it was my father's but it's like bread I guess. You could say you have your own recipe, but bread is bread. But I think the challenge was when you get different fish and different water contents, to adjust it. With little more flour and little more cornstarch. That was the secret, I think. But nowadays with this frozen, it's pretty consistent, yeah.

BF: And so where is this satsumaage probably going to be sold at? Uwajimaya's?

TM: I think most of it is primarily Uwajimaya, both in retail and we use it in our deli. So if you order some kind of udons you get that. We wholesale very little here.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2000 Densho. All Rights Reserved.