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BF: You've, you've been in the, the International District for quite a while now. Do you ever sit back and think about all the changes, or does it seem like it hasn't changed all that much?

TM: It's kind of like cities, when you stay away three, four years, it changes very fast. But if you're there and see it every day, it doesn't seem to change. But you and I know that the International District has changed dramatically the last couple years. And the problem is it just takes a little while initially. But once it start to change, the change is phenomenal.

BF: Do you think it's, it's all positive, or do you think --

TM: Well, it's not positive, but it's necessary and it's inevitable.

BF: What do you mean, what do you mean by -- why do you think that some of the change is not positive in that way?

TM: Well, if you take social comfort, change is never comfortable to a lot of people. And change sometimes could relate to unknown or unpredictable. So if you equate it that way, there's a lot of people that live their, all their lives, this is their whole... and to have change is deserving, I guess.

BF: Yeah. What are some of the things that you sort of miss about...

TM: The old days?

BF: The old I.D, yeah.

TM: Well, you know, one of the things we used to do is we used to go out and drink and have a nice time. And Bob Santos, and people would just gravitate to a watering hole. And this is where all the discussion was. And we would cuss at each other a little bit. But there was no real bad feeling, I don't think. But now, you go in and you're wondering if, if what are, what are they really thinking? There's just not that open communication. It might be a generational issue. It might be a lot of things. But in those days, we used to just go into like Bush Garden. Danny Woo had a restaurant up there, second floor, we used to go in. I don't know how often, but I felt -- whenever I went, I felt comfortable. We talked about positive things and bad things too. Like we would, but positive things. And that's what made things happen. And that's what we miss. And, and the sad part, when you look back, the people that are now opposed or uncomfortable are not the people that were at that table. And you didn't think about it in those days, but... it's, so there's, we're trying to recreate some of that feeling. We have the so-called unofficial Blue Sky Committee that meets about once every two, three months and try to reconstruct... but the same feeling is not there. The positive thing is it's kind of a hand-picked group, so they, the people that do come together are professional and mean well. But it's different, and maybe it should be different. But it is different.

BF: You mentioned Santos, and, and he's a recognized leader in the community in the I.D. as you are. And I'm wondering if you see sort of a new crop of leadership coming out of the district, or is that part of the problem?

TM: That's one of the reasons why this so-called Blue Sky Group is together. We felt that we should at least discuss how we should influence or whatever we could do to make, make sure we get a crop of leaders that we feel are looking out for our interest, I guess.

BF: Is it, is it hard to organize partly because it's so pan-Asian? I mean, partly because --

TM: Yeah. It, there's a lot of factors. And, and a lot of it might be just generational. Bob and I are maybe a few years apart, but basically same age. And then we got the next generation of people like Sue Taoka and people running the different organizations, such as ACRS and these wonderful organizations. They're the doers. They're the next generation. And obviously that's where the leadership, if any, emerges and has to come from. But they are then turning, "Who's behind us?" So we're kind of concerned about that. And so we're trying to get people -- but leadership is, is something that volumes of books have been written about. And I can't figure that out. And the more you think you know, the less is probably true. But leadership is a matter of mathematics. If you have enough people interested, you'll find a leader within it. So the question becomes: how many -- how do you attract enough mass of people at least interested, at least willing to talk to you and willing to have vested interest in the area, if you have enough of those, then I think the leader will emerge. So that's just how I think it about today. Tomorrow I maybe think about it differently. But yeah, but the district, it will be there one way or the other. And maybe all this talk about leadership and everything probably, maybe doesn't influence, but I guess you have -- that's what you wake up and do, and you feel that some way you influence this. And that's what keeps me going, I guess. And you think it, hopefully, you think it's positive and you're doing good. But I guess you'll find out sometimes people don't think you're doing good or agree with what you're doing, but then I guess having short memory helps sometimes. [Laughs]

BF: Remember the good; forget the bad.

TM: Yeah. You look about it, think about it, we've been kicked around a lot, in terms of -- hopefully not personally, but because of the business we ran or because some organization that I had to represent and make some statements that may not always been popular. But overall, you hope it's, works out.

BF: Does it help sometimes when you're being attacked because of some of those unpopular decisions, does the family make a big difference, 'cause you have such a large supportive family?

TM: Well -- and that's, yeah. Family. Immediate family, you know is always there because they can't kick you out. You're blood. But also that was the feeling of, I was trying to relate, I guess, to you is that we used to get together and talk over a beer or, you knew, even if you disagreed, they were behind you and they are trying to support you. And I'm, and I'm saying that that feeling is not there. And for lots of reasons because we probably didn't grow up together, and for whatever reason, but the point is it's not there. And I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying, that's the way it is. It's not there. And so you have to stop to think, is that critical? Can you work around it or what? Was it even important? But I guess you have to feel it was because the end result of some of those efforts and discussions have created, have done and served a lot of people. Maybe not perfectly, or maybe we could have done more, but I think history will say that we have done a fair share for our district, International District-type of a operation. You hate to say this, but we didn't, compare that with some of the efforts in the Inter -- Central Area, and all the money that the Model City threw at that. Anyway, when you compare the outcome of their efforts and the outcome of our efforts, I have to feel very proud of the people, the colleagues that we worked with in the International District.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.