<Begin Segment 20>

BF: Now, your, your daughter was the second Japanese American debutante?

TM: Oh, right.

BF: And your niece was the first?

TM: Right.

BF: So do you remember, did they, when, when they considered being debutantes and were invited and were considering that, did they talk to you? I mean, was discrimination an issue?

TM: I think the parents were much more excited than the kids were.

BF: [Laughs] To them, it was just another group.

TM: To them, it was -- I can't speak for Mineko, who's my niece. But my daughter says, "Well, there's twenty kids. I know fifteen of them. So what's the big deal?" And she kind of knew that it was important to be, so she went along. But I think honestly if we said it wasn't important and we didn't have to do it, she probably wouldn't have done it. And she wouldn't have lost any sleep over it either, I think. And I feel proud that -- it's somewhat superficial. It wasn't important to her, I think. I'm proud that's her value, that was great. So if she came to me and said, "Hey, Dad this is all BS. I don't want any part of it." I think I would have said, "Fine." I would've probably shown a disappointed face, and she would have known that. But you think back, even if she said no, the fact that she had that opportunity to do it itself was a valuable experience.

BF: And is that why you and your sister were so excited because you realized that, wow, this is...

TM: Well --

BF: This is something...

TM: No.

BF: ...unusual or --

TM: No, it's probably part of that. But part of -- it's just like, wow, your daughter is going to be special. If she was, even a supporting person in some kind of play, you're there applauding. That's the kind of same thing, I think.

BF: It's just a little mind-blowing to me that there's any organizations left in this time, day and age that you'd be a pioneer, a racial pioneer.

TM: Yeah. Yeah it's --

BF: Kind of wild.

TM: It's amazing. But it's -- well, it's still, I was at a dinner just a couple nights ago that maybe forty prominent Seafirst people. And Freddie Brown and I were the only person of colors. There was a lot of female, ladies that wouldn't have been there ten years ago. But still in this day and age when you have forty or fifty prominent businessmen, bank leaders, and Freddie Brown's the only black and I was the only Asian there. That's kind of scary.

BF: So do you remember having that realization, kind of looking around the room? Do you still do that? Because I've talked to some people, and they say, "Oh, I don't notice."

TM: Well, I don't do it with Fred, but I remember doing that with some ladies, ten years ago, and says, "Wow, you're the only lady here, or we're the only, token minority here." Didn't do it with Freddie. But I have done with others in the past.

BF: So you have that consciousness? I mean --

TM: Oh, yeah. And this is where I get back to like, little bit of Sanseis. They got to have that consciousness. If they're not, they're brain dead. [Laughs] And it's, the question is, what are they going to do about it? And if they say that hey, I'm different, then they got a problem.

BF: But you say, the way you've dealt with it is to be proud of it?

TM: Yeah.

BF: And say, might as well make it an asset.

TM: And try to make an asset, yeah. And that's something I've got to give more thought to, I guess.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.