<Begin Segment 10>

BF: Okay. We were talking before the break about, a little bit about redress. I was just going to ask you -- because you were a little bit involved, like you said, kept, kept involved a little bit with the redress movement -- when you heard, when you got the news that it was actually going to pass, and then later on when the money also actually finally got authorized, do you remember feeling anything in particular like, yea? [Laughs]

TM: Well, first of all, I was not, I didn't fill a leadership position, so... supportive position, so yes and no. But there's a term in Japanese, atari -- atarimae, that means that it's expected, it's nothing unusual, and that's the way it should be. So, I guess I'm, that's just maybe my nature. But I just felt well, great. Let's just move on to the next thing. And so, I remember at the convention in Seattle, 1989, was it? 19-whatever. President Reagan was going to sign it. So these people, crazy, they took off for Washington, D.C. And they wanted to be there at the White House when they signed. I says, "Wow." I had no desire, I wasn't spending two days of my life just to see ten seconds of somebody signing the paper. But you take, I'll use Cherry, because I respect her. But to her, I'm sure, a very emotional, justifiable, into a lot of hard work, that she wanted to be there. So I, glad that she was there, and I could kind of share her feeling, but I had none of that feeling. And I don't know if it was because of this or that's just my nature.

BF: I think a lot of Nisei were probably, had more feelings like yours, who weren't directly involved. I could see that, people kind of --

TM: And here again, I don't know if it's a Nisei trait or just in general, but it was, I guess it would have been a shock if somebody didn't sign it, I guess maybe. When you -- after all those years, the logic of it just seemed so logical. And you could -- and that's the other people, like Henry, they would continue to argue about the amount and other things, and, and I could understand that. But I guess I'm not vested that much. And I just feel that it could only -- it's not a bad deal. It's not the best, but it's not a bad deal. Take it and then move on, I guess.

BF: Yeah, although you're right that the issue seemed so clear, and the legal principles and the moral principles were so firmly in our corner, and yet when you look at the political process -- and you're a numbers man, how small of a constituency we are. It is amazing it worked.

TM: Yeah. Well, you know, it's kind of like a tanabata. The stars got together because without Sparky and Norm and Dan Inouye and Bob Matsui there, it would have never happened. And the chances of four very well-respected Nikkei congressperson, congress members, to be together again, seems fairly remote. It might happen in many years from now, but in the foreseeable future, not in my life. I can't foresee it. If it happens, that's be great. So it was an opportunity, and I'm glad the community, with the leadership of JACL, took advantage. However, I think the other thing that most Niseis failed to realize is the legal work that was done by the Sansei that's not really talked about. And I'm convinced that the Niseis, even if they had the legal horsepower -- and you have to discount the fact that for whatever reason, they didn't have it, the depth of the legal background and the schooling and experience that Sanseis have, but the Niseis were deprived that. And so that could be an issue. But even if they did, I'm convinced they could not have been able to attack this without, I don't know how you say, interjecting your personal -- they couldn't be completely objective to keep their mind on the legal issues. I'm convinced. And getting back, we were talking about some personal interjections I noticed as I dealt with the Nikkei community. And it's probably not unique to them, but I've seen that. If you, if you make this general statement that some of that would have become part of the legal process as it was administered by the Nisei, it would have never happened. So the Niseis in the general community really owe a lot of thanks and appreciation to the third-generation legal lawyers that are mostly unsung and have done a lot of work. And a lot of them are in the Seattle area and Bay area. And I hope that one of these days that they will be properly recognized. And I don't think Niseis appreciate, have that appreciation or awareness of what kind of work -- and I don't understand it fully myself, but I'm just convinced in the simplest way that the Niseis, even if they had those talents, would have had trouble getting this redress movement to the point where it got to.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.