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BF: Now let's talk about the period after the war. Well, actually, before we go there, let me, let me ask you this: when you, when you look back now, and it's been some forty plus years, what do you think, what impact do you think the internment had specifically on your parents, and to some effect on your generation? Because we talked a little bit about this before the interview, about how you were saying that now you're even thinking that the Sansei, and maybe even the next generation have more of an impact, that they've been influenced more than they realize.

TM: Well, I said that, Becky, as I'm convinced that the Niseis were influenced by this whole, I don't know, relocation probably more so than they realize, or want to, admit to. And, I don't know, this is just my observation, but most Niseis that I know are unwilling to step up and risk themselves or be put in a situation where they that, step up to the leadership position, which means risk. And I don't know how much that is cultural and how much of that the relocation event caused. But I can't help but feel that it sure didn't help. If culturally, basically, we were that way in the first place, it kept it -- kept it that way. So it could be an unfortunate, indirect influence. But so be it. Unfortunately, for whatever, and you, and I don't know if that's fair, but the Nikkei have not stepped up to be the leaders of whatever. And more often than not, even in the artistic field they just have not risked themselves. In any field, as much as I would love to have seen it, and, and I have to say that intelligence-wise, and ability-wise, and whatever, it's there. They were deprived some of the basic things that are necessary for whatever leadership necessary. And having said that, and that's just my view, assuming that's somewhat accurate, the Sansei, unfortunately also have been impacted by the Nikkeis because -- the Niseis -- probably more so than people want to admit, or that's just my theory -- thinking is that they've been impacted. 'Cause the Nisei's parents probably have more influence on their children than we tend to want to admit. We admit it if they do well, but, if they don't do well, the parents must have certain responsibility. And so if you take that thinking, the influence of the Niseis to the Sansei, and the, whatever it took or didn't take for the Niseis to step up to a greater achievement, not only in business but in other fields, the Sanseis probably, unfortunately got some of that, I don't know, whatever, passed on to them and so they haven't stepped up to the plate as much as you would like to. But also, statistically, maybe we're just not there in numbers to have stepped up to whatever position, because a lot of that is statistically. I have to feel that some way the influence was more profound and longer lasting than most people want to think that it was.

BF: Now, I, I asked that question in part because your, your folks, following the war seemed to a certain degree to have escaped some of that. I mean they seem to rebound in a way that a lot of the others in their, in their peer group didn't. And so let's talk about them leaving camp. They, they left camp and what was it like when they -- they returned to Seattle actually, rather than Tacoma. What was it -- do you remember how difficult it was just for them finding housing or getting re-set up, and that sort of day-to-day...

TM: Oh, yeah. Those stories are fairly common. At, even the Olympic Hotel and Grill or something, didn't serve Nikkeis, or Asians, or even people, any people of color for the longest time from what I understand right after the World War II. So all of us, including my parents had the standard, I don't know, stereotyping and discrimination. I'm sure you've heard some families, some Japanese families had trouble buying a house north of the canal and things like that. But my parents probably, like others that I've met, they had the luxury of saying that they had the opportunity to go back to Japan. And I think that made a big difference. And so looking back, I think my father was able and willing to take a risk because his thought was hell, if things doesn't work back, work out, I could always take my family and go back to a little house in Japan that I own. And that may have been the difference between some Isseis. Because some of these Isseis as we were talking, came out of camp and they had no family here, or they had lost all their money, very little connection. They probably had no connection with Japan either, so they were forced to, not gamble, just to make, do the minimal jobs so that basic welfare of the family is important, and then also try to save some money for their children so they could get educated and things like that. But the whole story I was trying to say is that when you get beat up over the head on a lot of occasion, first it was just the basic immigrant language issue, then there's the depression, and then you get put away in camp. Isseis got beat up, Niseis got beat up and then a lot of that was transferred to the Sansei. And getting back, I don't know, I can't -- I think one difference is my father always wanted to go back Japan. He was confident that he had a roof over his head when he got there, so probably that gave him extra strength to take the risk. Having said that, also, the business that he got into, we were serving Japanese food products primarily to the Nikkei community. And my dad, I thought, felt that that business was gonna kinda just stay steady or die down. But he didn't, none of us thought that hundreds of thousands of war brides would come to the United States. That was -- so the point is sometime business just grows in unexpected ways and you just have to be there, and he happened to be there at the right time. In the 1950s you know the Richmond Hotel that was just a block away, that was contracted to house many of the war brides that were coming into Seattle area. So they would look out the window and see the sign Uwajimaya. And to this day some of those customers are, their grandchildren are coming and saying, wow, my mother tells me, or my grandmother tells me, your parents gave them candy or sushi or something. Not many, but that's the kind of relation that my father developed. But who would have dreamed that there would be that many war brides come over? And so just being there at the right time and just being lucky kinda helped also. Had a lot to do with it I think.

BF: He took a gamble, and it, it paid off.

TM: Right. But probably for the wrong, not the -- for the reasons least expected maybe. 'Cause I think my father, he used to say, "Next generation you guys gonna eat, eat hamburger and hot dog and you probably not gonna eat too much rice." Or he also didn't think this through, and it's only recently I'm thinking this through that the reason we still eat Japanese food is because if you were raised by your grandparents, your grandparents might have given you sushi and miso shiru, or rice, maybe not sushi, but -- your parents may not have, but when you went to your grandparents', they did that. And thank God that happened all over because Nisei parents start to work and the upbringing of many of the children were by the Isseis, and their primary food was things they bought at Uwajimaya. And those are unexpected benefits. So maybe it wasn't such a big risk. It just happened to be lucky, I guess.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.