<Begin Segment 16>

BF: It must have been a hard period too, for your generation, looking, just thinking about what your future prospects were. On one hand the businesses in this country -- it doesn't sound like you, people felt that they had a, a really bright, unrestricted future there. And so do you remember thinking about that when you were thinking about your career plans and college plans? Did you think, well, I'll get a degree, but what good will it do me?

TM: Yeah, you know, we were like sheep. We just said the few, I'm guessing from the class, our class of graduating Garfield in 1955, oh, let's say there was 300. I don't know what the exact number was, 300, maybe ten percent of us were Nikkei, Japanese, so there were thirty approximately. And I'm guessing of the thirty, only about fifteen of us went on to college. And if there was fifteen of us I'm guessing there were about ten girls and five boys, you know, guys. And I'm guessing two years later I looked around and said, "Gee there's only about three of us left, of the guys." And I don't remember about the girls, but even the girls, if there were ten, and these are just round approximate numbers, but probably only seven left. And I'm guessing that, so we had, we didn't have the peer pressure to try to outdo each other. We were just there, hanging in there. And so related to that, I don't think we thought ourselves, or got together and says, "Hey what are we gonna do when we get out of college?" It was just a natural progression. I'll go work for Boeing, and Fred Nomura say he's gonna be a doctor and somebody else becomes an engineer. And that was what happened. I don't think we thought too much that we wanted to be a captain of something, of industry or something. It was just like going through high school. So if you're gonna go through college, you're just gonna go work. And if you didn't, lot of the fifteen that probably graduated high school went to work for whatever, post office, or either got married, or was doing something. But I don't think we had the luxury or we weren't smart enough to think wow, what are gonna do in our future. What, what are we gonna create for our children. I don't think we thought those things through. Others might have, but my friends and I didn't.

BF: But that says something in and of itself, that you didn't necessarily either see or feel you were restricted, and also what your plans were.

TM: Well, but restrictions were, how do you say, it wasn't black and white. You had, as a minority, and getting beat up all your life, and even if it wasn't for relocation camps, or Tule Lake, or whatever, this unfortunate experience, the minority community in general, and the Japanese always were some way considered, even within themselves as second class. I mean you never -- I mean, who aspired to become whatever, the head of whatever, you couldn't even become a judge you know, couldn't even do this. I mean, those were the kind of things that were -- what am I trying to say? In a sense, intuitively or whatever, the culture kind of self-imposed some restrictions within yourself. And it was probably both, and I haven't thought this through, but part of the culture and part of the way the general, community in general, maj -- majority of the population imposed on certain minorities, especially if, as we were, looking back, we were viewed as a threat, an economic threat or something. So, and it's no secret, those were the reasons why we were relocated too, the economics. And so, I don't think people got up in the morning and said, "Gee, what am I gonna do to hold down the Japs?" But some way they told you in so many unwritten ways that, "Just stay in your place, just do your thing, and don't make waves, and you'll be okay." And by and large the majority of the Nikkei said, "Well, okay, that's fine. So I'll just be a model citizen, and not make waves, just do what I'm -- become a good citizen," and that's the way it was, I think. And it gets back to what I'm saying is that the Nikkeis, Niseis, probably were forced into the situation, and most of us don't think about it, and if we did, we don't want to admit to that. And so that's why I keep saying that the Nikkei, Niseis, whatever, much more influenced by this whole relocation, because it added to something that was already there as a basic issue. When you add something, and you don't want to talk about it, and you don't talk about your basic issue, you don't talk about something that's, as major as relocation. I mean, now you would say to the next generation, we would not have tolerated, and made a lot more noise, but for whatever reason, the Nikkeis chose not to, by and large. And they started by paying a very dear price, and they continue to pay a dear price. And I repeat they've passed some of those issues on to the Sansei, unfortunately.

BF: Aim high, but not too high.

TM: No. Yeah. And don't make waves and all that stuff. But, getting back, that's the strength of our culture too, in some ways, in Japan.

BF: Explain. What are the...?

TM: Well, you take a country in Japan, they are a hundred twenty million people. I think culturally, by having a little bit of that kind of a gaman, and give and take, you could have the harmonious society that allowed it to become the economic power. Conversely, if you go to the... I don't know, maybe I'm just thinking in general, but some cultures where they always outspeak, outspoken, and they don't allow other people, they don't give other people elbow room. Japan culture is similar to American culture in that respect. They may not like somebody moving ahead, but they don't stop, they don't get in the way, where some cultures will stop others from advancing whatever economic situation. So they do that illegally, or under the table which only creates problems. So culturally, Japan has this, whatever it takes. But the culture allows people to, at least in the front, the omote, you know the front, to get along with somebody, harmoniously, and the Niseis probably took that too much to heart and not made any waves.

BF: But, transplanting some of that in this society sometimes makes you the sheep among wolves.

TM: Yes. There's a, you guys met Dr. Yuko Nishimura. I think she's -- I read only part of her book about India, but I think she's on to something like that a little bit. I gotta talk to her a little bit more. But I'm feeling that if she looks into the Nikkei community a little bit, this is a subject that I should spend some time with her, because I'd like to have her view. I haven't really thought these things through, and I haven't really talked to too many people, those are just thoughts I have, and now that I'm into this type of interview process and kinda reflecting back a little bit.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.