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TI: Okay, today is October 14, 1999, this is the fifth interview with Henry. This is a Thursday morning at nine o'clock at the offices of Densho. And Henry, last time we spoke, where we ended up was, we were talking about the time you were spending at the University of Washington, doing research at the, I believe the law library, one of the libraries, and you had gotten access to the -- a lot of the databases through Tony Hoare, who allowed you to use their business account. And this was during the time when your son was doing gymnastics at the UW so you'd spend a lot of time there. But now you have lots of information, or lots of new information. And so I guess the question I have for you right now is, what were your thoughts right now? What were you thinking now that you had this information?

HM: Well, this study process went on for about four years in total time period. It started off -- one of the key points was this book by tenBroek. It was the final book of the University of California series on the evacuation process. And it was a kind of a summation of the legal and the constitutionality of what happened to Japanese Americans. And that book came out, I think 1968 is when that first edition came out. So usually after their gymnastics session at the U of W Robert and I used to go up to the University of Washington bookstore and we used to look at all the new books coming out, and look at gymnastics books because at that time gymnastics was kind of in a popular fad period. And especially in the Seattle area because Dr. Eric Hughes, who was the head coach for gymnastics, had recruited some people from Japan and they were on the U of W gymnastics team.

TI: And what year, we're talking about 1970?

HM: Yeah, late '60s and early '70s.

TI: Okay.

HM: And so, anyway, during this time period well -- the reason why Robert was in that program was because Eric Hughes wanted to make the Seattle area a high-skilled gymnastics area. And in order to do that -- gymnastics requires a long training period. So you have to start with kids that are not even ten years old and get 'em into tumbling and various stretching capabilities and muscular activities. So, this was a youth program on Saturday mornings. So, Robert and his group, all his same age -- and this included lot of people that were quite active in sports, like Frank Ahern, he was the coach at Asa Mercer Middle School, and he became the coach at Garfield High School. And he groomed a whole bunch of kids in that Beacon Hill area to become real potent basketball players. In fact, three of his protegees went to the national basketball league, professional basketball.

TI: This was Carl Ervin --

HM: Yes.

TI: John Oldham --

HM: Yes, yes. Those three.

TI: And Woods.

HM: Yeah, Woods, yeah. Anyway, Frank had a kid that was just about Robert's age. He was one year younger than Robert. And he looked like a very scrawny kid, but the guy was very good in tumbling and floor exercises. But his arms weren't well developed so he had problems with pommel horse, and that's where Robert was good at. So they were kind of a interesting combination when you watched them because on the floor exercises Robert wasn't as skilled as Ahern's child, but he was able to perform in the other exercises for the all-around.

TI: Well, during this period, how old was Robert -- when taking these courses? 'Cause this --

HM: He was about -- when he started he was about eight years old. And by the time he got through with his program, they were in their junior high school time period.

TI: And was he being groomed to be a top level gymnast? I mean, how good was Robert as a gymnast?

HM: Well, these kids were the cream of the Seattle area. And in fact Benji Green, who later became a dentist, he opted for dental school rather than going out for gymnastics. But, these were kids that were picked from their various areas. And we represented the east side of the Puget Sound area. And Benji was from the, he was, I guess, Kirkland area. And Ahern's son was from the Beacon Hill area, that's where he was residing at that time.

TI: Now out of curiosity, how would they compare nationally with other programs?

HM: Well, when they got to be freshmen in high school, they were competing in the state level. So first year Robert competed he came in seventeenth in the state for all-arounds. But I expected him to be in that general placement, but unfortunately some of the programs that were being carried out in the high school area didn't have the support of the, financial support of the school athletic system. And because gymnastics came down way, probably about eighth in priority, if you look at it in terms of football, baseball, basketball, and that realm. So they didn't get too much financial support. So consequently Hughes' program was all-important, because Hughes wanted to groom these kids through elementary school, middle school, high school, and then he wanted to pick the cream of the crop of those kids to put in his own gymnastics program.

TI: And you say Robert was seventeenth in state, that was competing --

HM: That was first year --

TI: That was competing against seniors, juniors...

HM: Yeah, everybody.

TI ...sophomores.

HM: The total state activity.

TI: Got it.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 1999 Densho. All Rights Reserved.