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VY: Are there other religions that you studied that really made an impression on you?

MM: No. Basically, I dabbled in Hinduism... well, I really actually was a Mormon for a while and that was interesting. Okay, so Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and even in the Christian religion I've tried different sects, or what do you call them?

CC: Denominations?

MM: Denominations or something. I've been to a bunch of different churches. So I usually quit going when I don't like what the minister is saying, and I'm sitting there arguing with the minister in my pew. [Laughs] Then I think, "This is not good." So then I just read my own things, and I read a lot of, like, new age books, I guess you would call them new age, spiritual books on how to make yourself better and reach enlightenment. Like Eckhart Tolle, I read Eckhart Tolle, and some things that seem to contradict each other, but when you really look into it, they don't. Anyway, just basically I read a lot of spiritual books.

VY: I'm interested in that little time you spent at a Mormon. Do you want to talk about that at all?

MM: Well, if you'd like. It's not very long. I was looking for a church when my son became about eleven or twelve because he was getting harder to handle, and I knew that he needed some guidance and I was divorced at the time. So I was looking to have him go to church, I thought it would be good for him. Because he wasn't listening to me so much, it's just one of those dynamics where a son doesn't want to listen to mother. Now, if his dad had been there, I think he might have listened to him more. Because he and his dad think alike... I mean, they have the same kind of brain, they're left brained. They can understand each other better. So that's why I started looking. And I went to Presbyterian church, and I didn't like them at all, they were very cold people and not very welcoming. And so the next church I went to was this Mormon church, which I didn't realize at the time was one of the most wonderful spiritual churches. Okay, they were very welcoming, and the thing I liked about the church was they considered all children their children. I mean, they didn't differentiate your childhood, they valued all children, which was really wonderful for me. Because they helped Jim so much, and he gained some spiritual, I think he would have always had them, but you never know. Because he did get instruction from them, but he got only the good parts. So I won't go into the bad parts. I mean, there are some very strict things about the Mormon religion, and I actually joined the church, but I asked to be excommunicated about a year later, because I couldn't follow all their strict rules, I mean, they're very strict. And the ones that were there were very nurturing and wonderful people. I really admired them because they followed the rules, I mean, they really tried to follow the rules.

And so the thing was that it was really good for my son, he got into the Boy Scouts there. And the Boy Scout leader who's a really great man, he had four sons of his own, he took Jim under his wings and taught him all these different things, and he had these experiences with that troop that he never would have had with me or with his dad. Now, Alan was pretty good. He would take, I don't know... no, you weren't born yet. But before Caitlin and Patrick were born, my brother Alan would take us sometimes to ski, skiing, or do different things. But in the troop, they did things like fishing. They went on a seven-lake, what do you call it, portage, in Canada where he got bitten by all kinds of mosquitos, apparently. And the scout leader, he taught Jim how to swim in a lake and turn over a canoe and get back in, because he couldn't go unless he did that. Now those are things I never would have been able to teach him. So he learned a lot; it wasn't just religious things.

But the thing about the Mormon church is that they make the male people, the male parts of the group feel really important. So that was good, I'm glad he feels important, that he feels good, but he also treats women very well. And at that church, anyway, they treat their women very well. Whereas apparently, what I've heard since then is that not all the churches are like that. So I don't know, I don't want to judge because it depends just on who the bishop is. And that bishop that we had at that church was really wonderful. So it's just whatever human is there to take charge. So you have to kind of be lucky in life, you never know who you're going to get, who you're going to meet up with who's going to affect your life.

VY: No, that's so true. And thank you for sharing all that. It's very obvious that you're a very spiritual person and you've spent a lot of time really studying a lot of different religions and schools of thought and it really comes through in the way you talk about everything. And I also know that your parents were very important to you, and I think I remember you saying that your mom wanted you to write her story. And so I just kind of wonder if you feel like recording this interview is sort of a way of helping to tell your story?

MM: Well, I'm glad to be able to do my part, however, Caitlin is the star. She would be so proud of you, Caitlin, because she always wanted me to write, but I didn't know how to get the exact story. I mean, there were so many missing parts, and I couldn't put it all together and I'm too lazy, for one thing, if not another. But part of it was, it just seemed daunting, that whole idea of writing it together. Basically I like writing, but when it becomes difficult, then forget it, I'm not. I'm not disciplined enough, and I don't know how to go about it, whereas Caitlin knows and she's done an absolutely fabulous job, so Grandma would be so proud of you. She's probably smiling down on us now -- because I do believe in an afterlife. I'm not an agnostic, I do believe in an afterlife, although I still get scared about dying once in a while. [Laughs]

CC: Agnostics believe in a god.

MM: What?

CC: Agnostics believe in a higher power. It's atheists that don't believe.

MM: Right, but they're not absolutely sure... well, I guess I'm not absolutely sure, too, because nobody knows for sure, really, ever. Although I'm pretty sure, because I told you had a visitation from Shoji. [Laughs]

VY: Do we get to hear about that, or no?

MM: Did I tell you about that?

CC: Yes.

<End Segment 42> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.