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VY: Yeah, so as a child -- and this is up until you're, when you're living in this area up until about the age of ten, do you remember if you had any kind of responsibilities in the house? Were you ever expected to take care of your brothers as the oldest child or as the girl, anything like that?

MM: You mean after we moved out, or from when?

VY: This is when you're still on Twelfth.

MM: Oh, no. The only thing I remember about that, my youngest brother, he was just a baby, and I didn't have very much to do with him because he was just a baby. But my other brother, Shoji and I, we did everything together. I mean, we went to the Buddhist church together, we went to the Methodist church together, he came with us when we, I would play with all my friends and they were all girls. But he was a great brother in that he would call them names and stuff if they treated me badly, and I came home crying. He always stuck up for me, and he would actually be not very nice, but he would throw rocks at them if they were really bad, if he thought they were really bad. So, I mean, he should have been punished. But still...

VY: He stuck up for you.

MM: He was like an older brother who was actually younger than I was. Because he was fearless, I mean, really, he should have a little more fear in him. I remember when he was in... can I tell you this? Because he's not here to tell you this, but he was always in trouble when he was in grade school. And the principal would be put in jail if it got out what he did when he did it, but it's not like my brother didn't deserve some punishment, but he was always getting whacked with the paddle. And there was one time when he got whacked so badly that he broke the paddle. And, I mean, that's really pretty awful to whack a kid anyway with a paddle, but the thing is that the principal had no idea about children. Because my mom said that she knew that he had problems, but that if you explain to him why you shouldn't do this, he would stop doing it and he would understand. So he was easy to raise as far she was concerned. But at school, he was a terror. He didn't want to go to school, he must have known that it was going to be terrible for him. And all through school it was hard for him because I was really, I'm not bragging, I was really well-known because of my violin playing. I mean, I was getting out for this and that to play my violin solos, I was out of class a lot of times because of my violin playing. And people knew it, and I was a good student and I liked school. And there was one time in junior high, I think I was in eighth grade, and he must have in sixth grade. Well, anyway, one of the counselors called him in and told him he should be more like me. What's the matter with him, like, "Why aren't you like your sister?" And even then I knew that was not the thing to say to somebody. And so my parents, they were busy, so I asked my mom if she wanted me to go and talk to the counselor because that's not what you say to a kid to get him to behave, especially my brother, oh my god. He would make it worse, I mean, he would just be worse. But she said, no, no, that's okay. And she tried to get him into a different high school because she knew what was going on the schools, but in those days, you couldn't choose your high school, you had to go to the one we were assigned to in the neighborhood that you were in, so he had to follow me, even though high school, which is really awful. And even in high school, one thing, because of my violin playing, the choir teacher -- and I sang in choir is well -- he said, "Oh, you're Misa's brother, you should be able to sing here. I'm going to sign you up for choir." You know, he's not a singer, but he thought, oh, easy A, right? [Laughs] Anyway, that's the way it went.

VY: Hate to live in your shadow.

MM: Yeah, it was really awful for him, I have to admit. And I don't know, it's not as bad for Alan, I think. It was sort of bad, but not as bad because, first of all, he's not as volatile a person as Shoji was, Alan is much more level-headed. But he wasn't born in camp either.

VY: Right, there is that difference, right?

MM: Yeah.

VY: I'm just curious, so when you talked about your brother Shoji being whacked with the paddle, what school was that?

MM: At Bailey Gatzert. I mean, he was just a little kid, right? He was probably only in second grade or something like that, second or third grade. I mean, that's terrible to do that to a little kid.

VY: Do you remember that, seeing that happen to other kids or was it mostly just him?

MM: No, I didn't actually see this, it's just what I heard. Because he was so proud of the fact that he, that the principal broke and he didn't cry. He was not going to cry whatever. And so probably because he didn't cry -- I mean, this is just what I'm assuming -- is that the principal just whacked him harder so he would cry. That's what I'm thinking, I don't know, I mean, for sure. But I do know he was always getting in trouble.

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